I'm Your Buddy
A film and TV podcast hosted by best friends, Nick and William. Join us weekly as we watch imperfect but excellent works and discuss storytelling, friendship, and, in our current season, the film and tv scripts of Alex Garland!
I'm Your Buddy
Episode 224: Peeking With Serious Intent To Probe
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This week we are joined by our great friend and brother Sean (@dvrk_jed1)! We watch Alex Garland's eighth feature film Warfare (2025) and discuss military history, war films, and realistic chaos.
Hello and welcome to season 10 of I'm Your Buddy with Nick and William, a podcast where two best friends are watching and discussing the filmography of Alex Garland. I'm William, the one who loves Alex Garland. And I'm Nick, who also loves Alex Garland. And today we're gonna talk about his 2025 film Warfare with very special guest, returning guest. First time on a normal season episode, my brother Sean.
SPEAKER_04Hi.
SPEAKER_03Hi, Sean.
SPEAKER_04How are you? I'm good. How you doing, baby boy?
SPEAKER_00I I just want to go out and first and say today is a very important fall day for you, is flag day, right?
SPEAKER_02Sorry, that's gold, but the honestly, the only day, you know, the only day I know in June, truthfully. Yeah. This is gonna show how cool I am, by the way, is Ghostgate Day. It's the only day I actually what is it? National Ghost Skate Day. It's the it's like Oh, Ghost.
SPEAKER_03I heard Ghost Gate, and I was like, is this when we just have to do that?
SPEAKER_02I mean, I think it's that's the first day of summer, isn't it? Oh, maybe that's why it's ghost gate. Also, I think I think so too. Maybe that's why it is. I think that is too. I like that.
SPEAKER_00Happy Pride. Yes, happy pride, happy flag day. Pride flags. That too or something.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's why we're giving you pride. We're saying happy pride so you can feel comfortable in the world.
SPEAKER_00And that's why we're forcing uh which the morals we're here, we're forcing a real veteran to come onto our podcast and discuss warfare. Yeah, an anti-war film. And so we're really testing that mental health this month.
SPEAKER_02I thought about that because when we and William talked about this and I made fun of him because I I'm trying to give more time to my freedom and not in sake of the movie, but like as a dad. And so doing so, I'm trying I've been listening to more episodes. Oh, okay. And and so I thought about it in that sense when I was when I was watching of like, wait, am I the only person the two of you know that's been blown up? Is that why you thought of me first? Of course, or that that was this close, because I know I mean Carlo honestly would have been numero uno because here, yeah. Oh, yeah, in that specific conflict, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's not as cool or funny as me, but he's yeah, he's bitch ass, that's why you're here and I'm not sure. But he was but I was like, uh I'm I'm definitely the closest. Yeah, oh yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00Because you were in the region, you know. No, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03I'd be a you're in the country. No, there's Iraq. You were never in Iraq. I was in You did Afghanistan.
SPEAKER_02Afghanistan, I'm what's called Hellman Province, right? Southeast, and I was in what's called Sangin Valley. It's a a town in a valley inside of Hellman Province. Okay. But Sangin Valley, for anyone in the know, is Sangin. Sangin Valley's known to be it's the deadliest section of Afghanistan. Of Hellman, and Hellman is known to be the deadliest section of Afghanistan, right? So, like, not to be rude to the to the Korringle guys, but like it's known. Hellman Hellman Province does the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah, and that's what I was reading about this, whatever, the the stuff that this movie produced. This robot. Because this is yeah, the the place where they were was known for a lot of insurgent activity and all this kind of stuff. But but I we'll get into it. But I didn't think about this until watching the movie. I'm just like, why are we forcing Sean to watch this movie?
SPEAKER_03And then we're gonna make him talk about your bad people. Yeah, Sean, first question: why are you such a bad person in doing this to innocent people? Well, we're gonna put him on trial. Yeah, exactly. I'm kidding, don't answer that.
SPEAKER_02But you know what is funny? How many times do you think I watched it?
SPEAKER_00I I would say this is your third time. Yeah, this is a good question. This is a good question. Have you seen this movie before? Did you see it in theaters or anything like that?
SPEAKER_02Or or super embarrassing. I've told William this one. I don't know if you remember this. I fell asleep the first time I watched it. Okay. Much like they almost did. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, because again, it's comforting. My life as a zone.
SPEAKER_03Comforting is zone.
SPEAKER_02My life as a dad is real weird. Right? There's not a lot of time and space I can dedicate to it's a short film, but generally when I watch movies, I watch it on my phone. Ah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm on the move. I'm either in the backyard to the kitchen to the sink, right? And if I put anything on the TV, it's generally gonna be baseball or orange. It's something the kids can watch. Well, yeah, because if they're if they're eating, it's gonna be YouTube, right? I kick them off as soon as they're done, and I put something on that I can know is gonna be on so I can see it, like a baseball game, right? But I can't actively intently watch it minute to minute, right? So the first time I watched this movie, it was on my couch, it was a weekend, my wife is in the bath, the boys are losing their dicks somewhere. Yeah, and I I sat there and watched it, and I made it right after the grenade, before the first um Kazovac. Yeah. And and because I fell asleep, I assumed it was lame. I assumed I was like, I assumed nothing to keep you, yeah, yeah. And me and him weren't really in the like he he wasn't going on about it. So then when he talked about doing Alex Garland, I I I looked through the you know the the stuff and I said, Oh dude, these are these are bangers, bangers and mash going on over here. You mean you got dread, you got machina, you mean great, it's real good.
SPEAKER_03You say machina like a fucking Mexican, it's so funny.
SPEAKER_02Got dread, got machina. So so when I thought of yeah, so when he told me about warfare, I I've in the last two days I've watched it four and a half times. But but I'm his mental health awareness.
SPEAKER_03We do what we gotta do. Sometimes you gotta touch the flame to know the fire's there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was gonna the first time was just a you know, adrenaline. I was like, damn, damn son. Yeah, yeah. The second time was like, okay, try to blah blah blah. And then honestly, I finished the last two, and I said, Oh, you simpleton bitch, these guys took notes, these guys like read books, so I had to watch it again to pay attention.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. So, in case anybody had any kind of doubts, and I'm sure you guys have heard Sean on the State of the Friendship podcast, so you kind of get you know a semblance of of him and his relationship to William and all this stuff. But in case you guys were wondering, yes, the autism is there, yeah, but it's in a different way. Exactly. This man has been overseas, he's seen death, he was in the military, really genuinely serious shit.
SPEAKER_03But cries a lot about it, had a rough go.
SPEAKER_00You know, very negative, but still, the Thailand all runs deep. Yes, you watched the movie four fucking times in the past couple days and say it like a motherfucker. I love that.
SPEAKER_02Because kind of like how how we talked about before we started, he's like, How is it? Dude, it's an anxiety-driven, not not even do dude. I I texted him to be on time, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, when when it gets there, I I just I go into freak mode.
SPEAKER_03So this is in I just because I don't think I talked to you about this all the way. This is the movie I went and saw by myself, and this is the movie where the guy I went to the theater to see this. The guy next to me was drunk and passed out on me throughout the whole movie. This is I was trying to explain. What the heck? You'll get this. I knew something was wrong because when the guy was like hunched over, his friend was doing that sternum rub with his fist, and I was like, that's not normal. That dude's got a problem, that's how you're trying to wake him up. And he I helped carry him out. Like, he was that drunk for this movie. He passed out, like on me, the whole movie, and then I left and I came back and I helped him and his friend carry him out.
SPEAKER_02And it's super cool, is we'll get to a portion of it, but deep into this, there's a a really funny result of unfortunately the woes they had to experience.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And it turns and it and it also relates to your ability as a regular human to see someone doing a sternum rub, and you're like, that's not the normal procedure. That's not a long start to go below. So it's it's again, it's just it turns into pass down knowledge that even you start to that you now know.
SPEAKER_00Jesus. Yeah, that's ridiculous. I forgot that that happened to you. That was awesome. But you went and saw it again after that, right?
SPEAKER_03No, I saw it the one time in theaters. Oh, okay. This was my second time watching it. This was Nick's very first.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I had I just missed it. It was one of those things where it's just busy, you know, withstanding on the other.
SPEAKER_02And and you watched it one time and and you got everything you needed out of it.
SPEAKER_00Uh I I and I watched it split into two two things over two nights. I know, I know.
SPEAKER_03I he is watching it on a television and not a phone.
SPEAKER_02That's true. Well, I one of my experiences yesterday was on a TV. Okay, that's fine. So I will be to be nice. My first one yesterday was on the TV to experience to again to enjoy the room. The room was dark, not black, but it was yeah, it was late morning-ish in my room. I did. And then I did it again and then again, you know what I mean, just to kind of get it in be fair.
SPEAKER_00Well, but watching it once and seeing kind of how to layman, I don't know any of this shit. Yeah. Uh it so in this in the gamut of like person who understands this stuff, you're the expert, obviously, Sean. William, you're adjacent to some of this stuff. Exactly. You're the only coward in your family that never enlisted. So you hear all this kind of stuff, so you understand more of the lingo and and the the you're talking about clear-in rooms in your house with Shepherd and all this stuff. But Kazavak versus Medivac, we can get into it. Yeah, we can we can clarify those terms, and then I don't know any of this stuff, right? I only know it from movies. And and we saw it three different ways.
SPEAKER_03I saw it in theater, you saw television, Sean saw it on a phone screen four different times. With subtitles.
SPEAKER_02Do you guys not do that too? I don't do subtitles.
SPEAKER_00Because we have we can't have the volume up that louder or wake up the the child so when he's asleep. So yeah, um, but it's a good mix. Yeah, so we're coming from a comp completely different thing, and really I was just like, any kind of clarification that I need here, I'm gonna ask the expert, you know what I mean? So I'm not gonna re-watch it for the details, and you're gonna see stuff that I'm not gonna see clearly.
SPEAKER_02Honestly, I I truly we re-watched it because I got so nervous listening to the other ones because they're talking about frames and scenes and intention, the nerds, and I was like, oh shit, son. You were just trying to have you were having fun for an hour and a half, and you thought you were just gonna go on vibes. I was like, these dudes are are reading into scripture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got I got real nervous because I was like, that's super disrespectful. Yeah, so that was a lot of interesting.
SPEAKER_03Which ones did you listen to?
SPEAKER_02Uh Dred, Egg Makina, and Oh, yeah, and Civil War's not out yet. Okay, yeah, just those.
SPEAKER_03So dread's John Morgan, he did Civil War. Yeah, okay. Oh, fantastic. So smart guy, cool guy.
SPEAKER_02But I think that a lot of it, and to kind of start with this one, is the cool part is, and it definitely separation from some Civil War, is this we don't have to worry about any. I mean, you do, you always do, but this is like the least amount of Alex Garland that you're getting in the film compared to everything else you've looked at. Oh, right, because everything else like you've talked about, I've thought about it now. When I on the on the last two times that I watched it, I had already finished those two. So I thought about the control aspect. I thought about like all of this stuff I've heard you guys go over, and I was like, you know what? A lot of it gets cleaned out because now we just know that the story really comes from the the other Mendoza, which is okay because then it just allows for you to kind of get art.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's what like I don't even know. We didn't really discuss warfare because I didn't see it. So I don't think you really kind of told me that much about it, how much and I don't know how much there is to spoil about it because it's just a story about a mission that kind of takes place in the same period of the movie, about an hour and a half. And but watching it after Civil War, I'm like, oh yeah, this is like as much as we have this British guy commenting on the American Civil War, not giving us answers and making civil war about photojournalism. This is basically I like this as a companion piece to Civil War because it's like, oh yeah, you guys think you want this thing to happen, or whatever, you know, this American fantasy of like, oh, we're gonna go to Civil War, oh, we're gonna go to Civil War.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, come and see then.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. It's like, no, this is an accurate portrayal of what it is and how fucking horrific it is. That's all it is.
SPEAKER_03And I think one of the only things I talked about, other than the weird story about the guy that I was sitting next to when I watched it, was in the theater, the sound design is incredible. That was the thing, is like this is so loud when it cuts the sound out and it's just like sub-bass tones. Like there was so much of that where I was like, this is worth seeing in the theater a lot because of what he's doing, which he's taken from all the other things he's been doing. So he just kept playing with the sound like in Civil War. Yeah, this was loud and like I mean, legitimately like overwhelming in the theater. Like there are moments when the gunners are on the the roof where like you can barely hear anything because it's just the pops and the guns and the hits and the hisses. And I was like, this is really, really in a weird way. I mean, for the experience, it was really cool that he played that much with the sound and the chaos of it. And then I said last episode for Alex Arlan, hour and a half. This is his most experimental film from everything else he's done. This feels like in his world. I still think it talks about control. I still think that's in here, but like this is this feels experimental to him because it's the themes are there, but he's not telling a story necessarily. It's not a three-act, it's not a like you know, he stripped everything down in a really weird way and still told an engaging story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's what when I when we were watching it, because the shit kind of hits the fan halfway through. That's when the grenade comes through. Is that when you I think that's what I think it's about halfway through the case?
SPEAKER_03I wrote it I wrote it down 29 minutes is the grenade. Okay, 43 minutes is the uh IED.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so the IED is the half point of the movie. Yeah. So that's when shit really goes wrong. And I I love the structure of that first half of the movie. Yeah. Like it's I mean, as horrific as it is, and all the horrible stuff that happens, and these you can see these guys get fucking rocked, and and it's a true fucking story. But like having them get all fucking hyped up at the beginning, they're like watching the fucking video from uh 2006 or whatever the fuck when this happens, like them the camaraderie, and then just I've never seen a military movie just show guys existing. And like we we we see downtime in war movies and stuff like that, but usually it's all story-driven, right? So you're like, oh, we got we just went through some battle, we gotta go to point A to point B. It's calm, but now it's Tom Hanks talking to somebody and they're doing they're developing character, right? You know what I mean? That was the first one that came to mind. You get to the next set piece uh when you're looking for Ryan or whatever, right? So but those so those quiet points, they they they're trying to say something that's more story. But with this, they're just fucking chilling, they're just talking on the fucking radio, getting updates, like sharing water. Yeah, share. I love sharing the water. There's literally a shot of a guy just like scratching his head or something, and I'm like, he just puts that in that because they're just existing.
SPEAKER_02That's that's interesting. That's how you saw it. That's crazy. Yeah, what do you see? I I saw very so I I I notated the same thing, and I saw it, I saw the connection, but I I liked the ability for it to show because it is a very truthful part of of our lives, is we we do play when we work, yeah. Right? So, like you said, like the video and this is my head my head, I could be so too deep into it, but thinking of Garland, right, when he shows the music video, he makes the connection point two two times later, right? The first time or like part of it is when they're when they're in the street. When they're in the street and they're doing the music video dancing, exactly, yeah. That's a super true moment, yeah, right, of us playing when we're working. Exactly, yeah. And then again, when they're when they're in the sniper hide, yeah, and he's stretching and he's and he's making fun of Mendoza, it's it's just another moment of us we still play even when we're working.
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_02And it it's a uh it's a setup, right? Because he's showing you natural uh posturing, natural posing, and it's it's intentional, I believe, because later in the movie and and I keep thinking back to this, he purposely shows you isolated moments of people's faces. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And when I think of my life, uh it's cool to see that because the truth is we don't get to do that, right? So in your head, I mean, I know we're skipping a little bit there, but like when the the c when we're a little bit more chaotic, I I was thinking about that of like, wow, that's great to see people's faces because the truth of what happens is we are we're all moving, right? Lost to the situation. I'm never seeing someone's isolated face unless I'm checking. Yeah, right. So it's it was great to see that because again, the fact that he had already built them in their natural when he shows them isolated, what you sh and again, probably because I saw it too many times, but what you see is that's how you know their shell shock.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say j uh Joseph Quinn, uh the bald guy, the main guy, not the main, but you know what I'm talking about. Like, yeah, seeing him get his shit rocked, he can't focus, he can't look at people, like his like you can tell he's rattled, and the dude that got blown up and he's on the floor when he finally takes his sunglasses off because his face is just covered in dirt, blended with the beard. When he takes the glasses off on the floor, his eyes are just wigged out, and I was like, Yeah, that's not easy. You just keep focusing on faces. Well, so Mendoza, they do a lot with him.
SPEAKER_00Able because that's the director. Yes, that's the co-director, that's the guy. So the the radio guy is co-wright and co-director. Co-writer, co-director. That's he's playing him, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But when the spotter, I don't know his name, but when the spotter is inside holding the window, every time he shows his isolated face, that's why he shows it because he's wicked out. Yeah, he's blinking, he's looking wrong, he's not paying attention. When they read him when they're when they're running over the breakdown, his callbacks are half, they're not perfect, right? And then the sawgunner, it's the the same reason he isolates him, they're constantly getting mad at the sawgunner because he's out of position, he's not paying.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's right. Yeah, he was the And it's because he's bugged out.
SPEAKER_02Stick off to the side. And and and again, I I wrote it down too. I was I was real mad at the sawgunner the first time I saw it. Yeah, the second time I saw it, I realized he's a boot. It's not his fault. You know what I mean? This is 2006 and it's he's a boot. Yeah, so like that's kind of exactly what you would want, what you would expect him to act like. Yeah, it doesn't matter he's in the teams, he's still a boot. It's his first combat. Like a lot of those guys, their first pump with the team is after a full year and a half of SQLs, right? So like that would mean this is his first one.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it seems like he still does a good job. Oh, yeah, he does. Like because he still covers from the layman, because you know, they they make the point of like, oh, he's the new guy or whatever. And as unfocused as he is after the shit starts going down, I was still like, oh, he's still performing pretty well. Like he's holding his own as a new guy.
SPEAKER_02Because he's still a SEAL.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because like in in my world, those those guys, no, they're that there's a lot of times where and it doesn't happen for the rest of their life, right? But for the next day or two, they're out of commission. Yeah, yeah. You send those dorks to the house, you send them back to base, but you send them back because they're useless for a day or two. Not all the time, but when they freeze, when they piss or shit, when they cry, whatever it is, right? When they just don't do the thing or or they get a little bit too shook and they can't bounce back from it. Like again, like you can you see in there cap the the captain and Mendoza, they bounce back pretty well. Yeah, they do pretty you know what I mean. They bounce back because they're they're professionals, yeah. Right? The the Buddhist trying the his very, very best. You can't knock because he's a seal, he looks that good. A normal human in my world, when they break down like that, you you have a a a body bag. Yeah, you can't operate under pressure. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's a it's great to see that.
SPEAKER_00And I read in some of the trivia for this that minus the two guys who got injured, obviously, within a week, all the other guys were sent to new missions already. So yeah, so yeah, because that's just that's quick turn around.
SPEAKER_04That's part of it.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh yeah, the the two guys obviously out of commission, but the others the others who got fucked their shit rocked as well. You know what I mean, with this grenade. And with the IED and with the fucking Claymores and all this shit, like they're getting fucked up. And they're still just like, no, you gotta go back out. You're on mission. This is part of the war. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02So and and back then, yeah, it was. It was heavy, heavy rotations, especially with those guys. They were making big, big rotations all the time. And they were, I mean, they were they were the true not to not to knock the dudes in like strength take units or or you know, you know, Carl, my brother's world of like foot to foot, building to building. But like those dudes were doing like real real missions back then.
SPEAKER_03Our our brother, I forget what year, but he was the front lead to take Fallujah. Yeah, he was the first one of Battle of Fallujah. Absolutely. Yeah, it was probably the worst of the Iraq stuff was a lot of the Fallujah. After that, I think it's oh five was the Battle of Ramadi. So this is a year after a lot of the major conflict. Gotcha. Because this is 06.
SPEAKER_00See, and I like that the movie doesn't, it doesn't ground us in terms of like there's no title cards. There's no like or no, there is at the beginning, right?
SPEAKER_03It just says like it it says the the date and uh the city, and then it's everything is based on memories or that it's just it's just overseeing a uh a marine operation, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Which is a super normal thing they were doing back then.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I like that because but we don't get anything warrant, it's just like we're just gonna see these guys operate on this thing. We don't necessarily know what their mission is. Maybe it's just scouting out this fucking location in the world.
SPEAKER_03That's what I was gonna say. That's that goes back to my like this experimental is like you don't I don't know what the mission is. Yeah, there's not uh HQ. Is it recon?
SPEAKER_00What are they doing? Is recon even a thing, did they say in the military?
SPEAKER_03You know what I mean? There's not like a goal like every other war movie, they always set up like you gotta go get this guy. There's intel, you gotta, we're gonna seize. There's none of that. It's here are the people, yeah, and then here they are, and then that's it, and then we're piecing it together as we go, but there's none of that, like lay the groundwork for Iraq. There's also none of the because I think a lot of my conversation might turn into discussing other war movies, is like there isn't the Eric Bana scene in Black Hawk Down where these guys sit and go, you know what? I don't care about the politics, I'm here for my brother and it's brotherhood, and I'm here. There's no talk of that.
SPEAKER_00There's no talk because that's an understanding, exactly, it's inherent in this.
SPEAKER_03Isn't a film for like me. He's literally going, we're gonna recreate this as best we can, and that's all we're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So two things first. Well, two things to to that. I I I can't I can't it would be a disservice not to say it, yeah. But and this will come in when we talk about how it relates to where I got to, but that was only the kickoff. Like the the guys who never because right to them, right? If if you did Fallujah or Ramadi, like if you did the overthrow of Iraq, yeah, like I totally agree if you're in OIF and you never participated in OEF, no shame in your game. You know what I mean? Like you've you slain the dragon, and a lot of us will be envious of of those guys forever and of all time, right? But that's only the start of the fight. We we got so much nastier in the next five to six years because of Fallujah and Ramadi, right? Because of what OIF did when we got to what's OIF? OIF is Operation Iraqi Freedom. Okay. That was the overthrow. That is that is the Iraqi campaign. I was gonna say part one is take it, and then everything got kicked around. Yeah, yeah. Afghanistan is known as up Operation Enduring Freedom, OER, right?
SPEAKER_00So the campaigns succeeded, that shit got worse.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Right? So, like that is where and and oh six is that time, right? 06 is where we start to really get our our fingers inside of Iraq, and so because of it, we start to move into Afghan. And so in 06, you see some of the nastiest Afghan fighting we have, right? A lot of war crimes in 06. Shout out to Fifth Marines, right? A lot of like work, a lot of work, right? Yep, that's a word for it, and then you get 07 to 09, dude. It's the wild west. Yeah, boys are yeah, yeah, dude. The Brits are out there, Australians are out there at that time, Americans are out there, and they are dude, they are fighting demons. And then you move into the back end of it, nine to thirteen, which is kind of my era, which is it's the beat up. You're either getting beat up or you're beating up, and that's all we were doing. We were not doing dude, it was not the same as the cowboy era. The cowboy era is we're f they're fighting for land, yeah, and they're taking land, losing land, like we are fighting for land. 9 to 13, we are just we're in land now, and now we're just it's a gang war.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And and we're not always winning, and sometimes we're winning really, really so like what happens in Fallujah and Iraq and Ramadi, they are so different, but again, it comes into why I was able to watch it and be like, oh, I was I'm losing, I'm like watching it, losing my mind. And it's really cool because I don't even I don't merit half a centimeter of those guys. They're all team dudes, right? They're all amazing. But the cool part about it is because of those woes that they went through, it it turned into seven years of training war fighters to not do it that way, so that even the lowest level idiots like me are doing things to prevent problems they experienced in the movie.
SPEAKER_00Oh, gotcha.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? We're uh you know what I mean. We're not special, like what I did was not special, but because of all those fights they had in those big two two, three giant wars, you know, city overtakes in Iraq, yeah, it turned into the training that turned regular, you know, our side into super, super compatible.
SPEAKER_03So even in the military, Carlo Big Brother G. Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Well, because the I think that it's I mean, I think it's been in the media a little bit uh in terms of movies and television and stuff since you know post-9-11. But like, and it's been discussed of like how what year the the modern uh wars are so different than like even you know Vietnam or whatever. Vietnam is a lot of guerrilla warfare and stuff, but like this isn't just like fucking army versus army, right? And that's what made these wars in the Middle East different, is it's little packs of what they we would call insurgents, right? These farmers, you mean farmers, no, yeah. I was gonna say, yeah, go it's sorry, it's citizens with AK-47s, yeah. Uh fighting against the US military, but doing so effectively where they can fuck people.
SPEAKER_03I just I can't I can't help but for the rest of my life think of that Cat Williams joke where they were we were so smart to like we never were fighting an army, we were fighting insurgents and just sitting at home going, I don't even know no motherfucking insurgents. And then he's like, What's what's the what's their uniform? No, exactly. He's like, I'll be like their clothes that they wore fucking pajamas, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So so to be fair to them, think about it like this, and and and just just in case people don't know, right? The end of Iraq and all of Afghanistan fighting is like this, right? The beginning of it, you're right, there's a clear designation. Yeah, and even with the Romani thing, they'll tell you they cleared the city out, they clear it out days before. So, like and now that that doesn't mean to kind of feel any type of way about the family that stays in the home in the movie. Sure, sure. Because it was super normal for a lot of people to say F off Americans, we're gonna stay, you know, where we feel it to be safe, right? Yeah, no quarter. But but even you know, fast forward to when I'm fighting, when when we're fighting, no one's evacuating cities because again, it's it's a gang war. We're yeah, this is it's a turf war, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's so different than old wars.
SPEAKER_02It's you're literally in a yeah, yeah. So so to be fair to them, when you think about it, think about it like this of like we all live in the city. Imagine somebody invades Albuquerque and they take over the Air Force Base.
SPEAKER_03Well, Nick says they are, right? And that's why we gotta vote in the midterms, they're invading.
SPEAKER_02So they take over the Air Force base, which means you know uptown to downtown is heavily patrolled. Yeah, yeah, right. And so what happens is the the three of us, because you're down south on the west side, you're deep on the on the the central west side, and I'm up on the west side, right? Yeah, we would become hot spots. And when I get my friends from California to come stay with me, and you get your friends from down southern New Mexico and Texas, right? Yeah, that's what it looks like. So yeah, you look the same, but it's still fair to say, like, yeah, we they absolutely import. They import fight because they know they can't, they don't have it. So it's true to be like the farmer has an AK, absolutely, but if you don't think he's housing three fighters, well, yeah, because it's there's still strategy going on on their end.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. They're still trying to absolutely the their military forces, even though it's not the fucking army of Iraq or whatever, like when Saddam, you know, was still alive and all that shit. Because the they it's defending their fucking yeah, they're defending.
SPEAKER_03That's what I was gonna say. There's two shots in this movie that Alex Garland purposely puts here that he's gotta respectfully walk the line because he's making this film with a Navy SEAL Ray Mendoza, but that night shot of the neighborhood and the the team is slowly coming in. Yeah, that's the invading force.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We're the outsiders. We're coming in in the middle of the night. That is creepy.
SPEAKER_00We're breaking into someone's house. Yeah. In the middle of the night.
SPEAKER_03That's that scene. And to to offset it, the the resolve of that is the end of this film when we leave and it shows all the Iraqis coming into the streets.
SPEAKER_00The the neighborhood is fucked up. The neighborhood's fucked up. Yeah. The only guy's blown apart is like the fucking is a national. Is a national, exactly. And they're just coming out of their neighborhood. In their house clothes. We came, we fucked it up, yeah, and then we left.
SPEAKER_03But there's just an idea of like, and I don't think this is what it is, but it can easily look like they were defending their neighborhood. Oh, of course. And then we left. Then they come out and they're like, are they gone?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Is this our neighborhood now? Like that imagery is there. Yeah, yeah. Of course, it's more complicated than that versus on good and bad. But just the simple imagery is we come in at night and it's creepy, and then they come out broad daylight dressed in slippers of like because here's the thing that's an quote unquote innocent family. We took the house over. We gotta talk about the family in the house. But all the other houses next door could also be just innocent families with uh wives and sisters and kids, and when those Bradleys come in and just start blowing all the roofs, you don't know who got happened there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_03There's kids in those houses too. Just because there's a guy with a gun doesn't mean the whole house top to bottom is insurgent.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I I think about it like this, and because absolutely, but and this is the probably the the weirdest reasoning to have me here, is if we were fight if if we are fight if we were fighting for this land right here, right now, yeah, you you can bet the the lands the the streets that I'm pushing pushing the pushing the line on are not gonna be the same ones that my kids sleep on. I agree.
SPEAKER_00Or you would hope so. You'd hope. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02But but to say like you know what I mean, do I do I deserve the Bradley to roll through my street and and and take out the top floor? If I'm fighting and staying, yeah, brother.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What do you think we're signing up for? Yeah what I mean. Like again, just like Silver War and just like warfare of like you gotta pick one. You either don't and then you better get to the polls, or you do and you better understand that yeah, we're going to you're going to get your house with holes just like they didn't have to be able to do that.
SPEAKER_03And I was gonna say if you keep it if you keep it on Albuquerque in I because you know Nick always makes fun of me, but like I'm in a gated community. If that gated community turns into a militia thing, and I know that's what they're doing there, if I don't leave, I can't also go, oh, but I don't agree. It's like I know what's up. Well, then you're gonna pay where you're gonna pay it. Otherwise, someone's gonna assume I'm part of this. Yeah, well then they're not crazy to assume that if I'm still there.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that's what I think we need to clarify, especially for our audience, okay? Right. So when we're talking about these things, we are not talking about, and look, we have uh the left has a problem with this, and we are very left-leaning people. We are contrary to Williams' beliefs. Williams' voting record and all these kind of things.
SPEAKER_03But I gotta say, red's my favorite color. That's not my fault. I got killed.
SPEAKER_00Hey, red is on what the words mean. The the morally, of course, war is wrong. Killing people, we don't want to kill no one wants to fucking kill anybody, everyone just wants to live a good life. Yeah, what is it good for? We're not we're not talking about the moral circumstance of it, if of course it's wrong to invade someone's house, these kind of things. But we're coming from the stance of in this world, in this war, in these fucking terrible conflicts, in humanity, it's a fucking reality, unfortunately. And so when we're talking about if you're in a fucking war zone and shit's getting blown up, you should want to leave. That fucking sucks that your house is on your block is being fucking you shouldn't have to.
SPEAKER_03Because it shouldn't happen.
SPEAKER_00It shouldn't happen. But it is humanity is fucking stupid and it's the reality of these things, and yeah, reality's fucked up. Yeah. So that's where we're coming from. We're not saying like that's not an excuse for people dying or any of this stuff. We're just saying we're talking about reality. I I do legitimately. Which I know that people aren't still gonna agree with that stipulation.
SPEAKER_03I I know we're supposed to have one take on this and we're supposed to yell at Sean because you did the uh authoritarians, dirty work, and stuff like that. But like, and I don't know if this is dehumanizing, but I truly do mean this is I I tend to view war closer to a force of nature is like it's a fire. Absolutely, and it's coming in my neighborhood. Like I shouldn't want to leave my house. I should want to protect my things and my belongings, and I have a connection to that, but it's here, you know what I mean? Like I it's here, I have no say in it being here. So to protect my kids and to protect my dog or my cat, I have a cat to protect my cat, I would leave. I would, or you would want to. I get the feeling of not wanting to. We grew up in Corpus Christi, we had to leave one time for a hurricane evacuation, tons of people didn't. Yeah, tons of people stayed for Katrina, tons of people stayed in Jersey. Yeah, one time we stayed. So, like, I totally get the I'm staying. I get it. I do, but you have no idea how bad it could or will get when you make that call.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So many of these wars, because we're the occupying force, it gets messy on who's good or bad, language barrier, cultural barrier. Like we lose that. And so we don't know. Are you there because you sympathize? Or are you there because you need the work? Are you there because culture like we don't know why you would stay there? We also were not asking, we're not doing a gallop poll going, hey, you guys that stayed here, we asked you nicely, what's making you stay? Like, we're not doing that, so I get how complicated it is that this film is in a neighborhood with a family, with kids there.
SPEAKER_00Well, and he he shows it.
SPEAKER_03He shows I was gonna say that's it's such an important part of what this film is, is that it is in a neighborhood.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you have you have that dichotomy of you're in a fucking house, you snuck him in the middle of the night. There's literally a couple families there, or right, because there's two apartments. What they do is they're like, hey, we're not gonna fucking hurt you, just go into this room. But so they are held hostage in a way. You can only stay in this room, we're doing our thing. Uh you're you're under guard, but when the back Bradleys come and they fucking torch the the top of the fucking house, still they get on top of them. They don't want them to get hurt. Yeah, they fucking, you know, they do our best to do our best care to take care of them. And then again, right at the end, you have the shot of inside the fucking house where it's just dust and shit and they're coming out, blood and guts on the floor. Exactly, yeah, blood and blood all over the fucking floor. Disgusting. You have when they're leaving, you have the wife screaming why at them and all this kind of stuff in English. So just like in Civil War, he just presents the reality. It's up to us to see the moral ambiguity of like they're doing some things right. They don't, they're not gonna hurt these people, they're trying to protect them, but at the same time, they invaded their fucking house and destroyed it.
SPEAKER_03Which there's a both things are true. There's a beautiful irony that Alex Garden has to understand is he's a British guy telling an American story of quartering into a civilian's house during wartime. That is literally like the top five reason why we went to war with Britain is that we're seven. That is one of the top five rules is no quarter. It's like four or eight of the ten is you're not allowed to do that because we hated the British doing it. And outsgar got the comments smug and pompous, going, like, yeah, so I I guess you guys, uh you guys do this now, huh? That's cool. So fascinating, you don't mind doing it now.
SPEAKER_02Learn from the best. Did you know that's a lot of the public discourse about the movie? I didn't I didn't know that until I watched it, but a lot of the civilian eyeballs that enjoy this kind of aspect of of filmography, I guess. I saw a lot of it when because I was I knew it was related to a real one, so I went to go look to see how much I could find in that. And what I found was a bunch of internet dweebs arguing about me the fourth fourth amendment violations. Yeah, third amendment violations. Oh, do you guys they were relating it exactly the same way? And I was just like, oh man. I mean, uh, and again, there again, there's the opposite end of the those guys that are responding of like that's only the US citizen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, like, but do they have our constitution over there? I'm sorry, exactly.
SPEAKER_02But but again, gene conventions, rule rules of engagement. Like there are there are rules that's around, but like it was funny when I went to go look just for information. What I found was that kind of discourse as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, because from a civilian standpoint, that is how you're gonna connect those dots of like that's a shitty thing to do to a family. Because here's the thing when I watch this film, who am I in this movie? I'm the dad, I'm not a troop.
SPEAKER_00I see. At least at my yeah, like at our age.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, in my head, I'm the civilian that someone came in their house. Like, I'm not a force, I wasn't in the force like you. So you look at this, you're Mendoza, or you're the you're the bitch pussy that was crying on the floor. Like, you're that guy. I get that. You put yourself in the film, and you're you're the baby crying. I put myself in the film, I'm the civilian that like I was wronged. Well, everyone watching it, you're gonna relate to like this looks like an asshole thing to do. You blew a hole in my wall, you bled out, guts on the floor, and then you leave. Which to me, this is the metaphor of kind of our entire Middle Eastern campaign. Is like we went in, kicked dust, blew holes in walls, bled out, and then we kind of left them to like clean it up.
SPEAKER_02It's hilarious you say that because when when we get to the IED scene, it's quite literally what I thought of. Yeah. Is is I thought of my my two biz biggest explosions. I thought of like, who am I in this scene? Like, not of like coolness or but just of like what is the closest? Because if yeah, if you're watching and and you know, it was the curiosity of like that's what I when I when I saw the scene, I thought of it. I watched how all of them reacted and what ended up happening after to kind of be like, who did I in life closely relate to based off this scene? Um and it it it I'll say it is so weird because the boot gunner. No, I mean so so not to get too deep into it, but I I've been in it I was gonna say that.
SPEAKER_03Side week, you're with me, and you can get as deep as you want.
SPEAKER_02I've been in a lot of situations that you can relate to one or two scenes in that movie, right? Like the grenade scene, I've unfortunately been in a dumbass situation kind of like that. The IED scene, I have. I've been in two big ones like that. The the tourniquet scene, I've been in two like that. But they weren't the same day inside of a room surrounded within an hour. And yeah, and I'm not a seal. You know what I mean? It doesn't count. Mine is over the course of five months.
SPEAKER_00You were in the National Guard, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, someone's reserved. He was handing out soup ladles.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like it's hard. Salvation Army. I have to compile all of my experience to equate to one of their one hour single events. This one mission, right?
SPEAKER_03Which is insane. And I'm glad you said that because that's it's easy for us to miss because we're watching the film, but like for all of this to happen in this short of a time frame, not normal. Yeah, we'll get into how he's filming utter chaos because it's insane that you he put this into film in the way he did, and it's still like readable and understandable. It's so fucking going crazy.
SPEAKER_02And to kind of relate to how you said about the sound. Oh, I I completely agree. There are a lot of port, like a lot of parts of the movie where I'm like beating out of my chest, and the the third time and like the the the last two times where I watched it, I'm calmer and I was able to notice like the sound is perfect. That's why I was freaking out. Yeah, right. Yeah, because he got it. It's out when it needs to be out, and when it's in, it's in. And when it's in and distant, it is per you know what I mean? It just it hits in that moment really well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it seems like it's intentionally very subjective, and I'm sure he got this, you know, in the collaboration with Mendoza. Because from what I read in the delineation between their directing, because he co-wrote it, co-directed it, the way that they wrote it is Mendoza and the rest of his team, everything that went into the script, it had to have two uh points of verification. So two people had to remember it happening that way. So everything that happened, two people remember it actually happening that way. And then when it came to the directing, Alex focused on the camera work and the action choreography, and he let Mendoza direct the actors. So it said, like, hey, this is what we were feeling in this thing, this is what happened next, and he talked to them since it's and to get that group of troop mentality kind of things, and and Alex stepped back at that point.
SPEAKER_03I think there's that's so fucking fascinating because I think you would assume it would go the opposite. Yeah, exactly. The trained director would do the actors and the emotional stuff, and then you'd bring the seal just to do the tactical bullshit stuff, but for him to let him do the the actors.
SPEAKER_00Like you were there, you you felt those emotions, or you know the guys who felt these emotions, so that's so interesting. You lock in with the actors on that.
SPEAKER_02So a lot of the notes I have that it fills that in. That's so I I had an idea, because at the end of it, when it shows how he's running through the physical choreography of the scenes, yeah, yeah. I I was like, okay, good, good, right? Like, like I because that was a big takeaway I have is there's a lot, hundreds for me, hundreds of scenes, fragments, or moments where I'm like, that's SEAL activity, like that is tier one operator stuff that's that they do, and because they have the equipment physically there right now, it works out, right? And so I I appreciated because there was a lot of transparency in that sense where you can see if it wasn't it or not, and there's a lot of things I saw where I'm like, that is right on par with what tier one guys do, so that's great to see, right? And then now that I knew what I knew, there's a lot of scenes in there that are so I don't know if you guys know this as well, that they sent those guys to like a shortened boot camp. Okay, so they send them to a shortened boot camp. The actors, right? So that along with their training from Mendoza is kind of what they're pairing. Yeah, and that's really funny because there's a lot of scenes that I see that stuck out to me in the sense of like that's boot activity, and it's and that's why too, because it's so funny. Yeah, right, is there's a lot of you can catch it. There's like yeah, there's like there was three huge ones that stuck out to me, and by the time I finished it the last time, I was able to be like, you gotta let those go because those are backup actors. Yeah, right. Like there's a there's a at the very end, there's a firefight scene where they're doing really good movement and cover, and then the very, very last two dudes decide to cross the street with empty empty rifles as they're attempting to magazine change both of them. Uh-huh a sawgunner and an M like dude. You know what I mean? Yeah. But again, they're backup act, they're not the dudes in the house, right? So then when I think about the dudes in the house, when I think about uh when he's calling in that nine line, he has a bunch of phrases in that nine line that are just super, super the first time you learn a nine line. Uh-huh. And again, when I watched it, I was like, oh, that stuck out as like something to me. But then when I started to go through it more, I was like, one, the fact that they were able to get this actor to kind of run down a pretty good one. And the fact that it's only sticks out his kind of boot knowledge, like the those words, the vernacular that he can't kind of get out because of his newishness is kind of cool too. Right? It kind of stuck out in that sense. So it really, really shows because there's a lot of like physical movement that is like that's tier one operator movement. We don't just generally move that way, and then there's a lot of movement where I don't know how else to put it, it's just it's just it's boot stuff that he's slow, he's hesitant, he pauses here, you know what I mean? He doesn't understand how to respond here. Like, there's a lot of stuff like that too, where I really liked it.
SPEAKER_00Which I wonder how much of that is intentional because if you have Mendoza there and some of it's like, oh, we were just fucked up, so we're gonna be sloppier, or something like that. I wonder if but if it's mixed into where it's like in the same scene or something like that, some some the guy is locked in in one moment and then he's not the other, then I would think it's that it also pairs in like what I said is there's I also get everything I know is all hindsight from their war do the their stories, like the uh the morphine and the tourniquet scene, those they were driving me wild.
SPEAKER_02But again, when I went to advanced um ACLS, right, class, like life like life-saving class, my instructors were Afghanistan and Iraq veterans, right? So, like they're kicking us in the back of the helmet because I was gonna tell you guys it's it's hilarious, it's not a story, but like I can't tell you how many times dry running morphine shots or um quick clots or H bandages, how many times me and the guys next to me have just been booted in the back of the the Kevlar because we're doing it wrong, and that's exactly what they say. Would you you you fuck this up, he dies, stupid kind of deal, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so like it's hilarious to see there's a specificity that I've never seen in other movies, even movies about the Middle Eastern complex, where mentioning that the phosphorus from the IED is still burning in their wounds. So mentioning that, because that's new, that's something, or I don't know, that's an Iraq thing. But that's an Iraq thing. Yeah, so like so. That's a thing, and then uh the fucking the guy from the bear, whatever, the the main hotshot guy Will Poulter losing his fucking voice, yeah. That's from breathing in phosphorus, but they don't say that. That's just like oh, phosphorus was burning in the fucking air when this ID went off, and he happened to breathe it in at the that moment. Yeah, that's why his voice is fucked up. They don't say that, but that specificity is fucking in there, and I think that's brilliant because that's something that you don't you don't I've never seen that in anything else, and that's such a specific thing to that specific uh fucking weapon that happened to the that is a common weapon that I think even the lay person like me knows what an IED is and has heard about them, but yeah, and for people who don't know, it's a uh improvise explosive device, and that's what this the insurgents, the the people, the citizens, yeah, they would they they'd improvise these fucking explosives.
SPEAKER_03I'm sure there's make them with chlorine, yeah, all sorts of stuff.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure there's specific builds or whatever that they do, but in in that era, maybe they did, right? So like primarily what what I've dealt with, right? So from the late 2010 era to the late 2012 when I was in in the air in the in the battle space, what we're dealing with is compounds, right? So you're probably getting some version of multiple uh fertilizer compounds inside of a container with uh an explosive device, a very short explosive device in it, right? So you've got a container, it's gonna be in one location, and what they'll do, what ends up happening is they run wires from the jug to the battery pack. Battery pack is located off site from both the jug, right? And then both of those wire to the pressure plate. The pressure plate is what they're gonna put in the ground. Okay, so well no, everything's in the ground, but what they're gonna do is on the path that we're walking, this is all Afghan, right, from my era. But what happens is they're building it in the they'll dig it in two feet deep, three feet deep, right? And they'll put in it's a plank of wood, styrofoam or cardboard or paper or something squishy, and then another cardboard, and they're putting two sides of debt cord on it with or they'll run coppers for the connection, right? Because it's going to a battery. Yeah, and so the goal is that when you step on it, you connect the circuit. Yeah, okay. Right, the fire pressure of the step. And so then there's a lot of really cool ways that they found to kill us, is they'll do it to where the pressure plate itself will have the device, right? So they'll build it and then right next we'll be there. So if I hit it, I'm gone. They didn't like doing that, it's not super successful. So what they like to do the most is because they know I'm in the front, or someone's in the front, is they'll put the pressure plate on me, and the blasting device is like 10 feet behind me. So that they take out the middle of the squad. Wow. Right? Or the the the real the the famous, not famous guys, but like the good ones will do what's called a daisy chain. So a daisy chain is you're gonna have a plate in the middle, think of like Hurt Locker, and it's gonna run off to multiple explosive spots, right? So part of when we find when I find them is the slowness in that, right? Because so that's again a thing that you won't see in those kinds of movies, is and and they'll never hopefully I don't think they'll do it right. So maybe they never depict kind of the Afghan war, but that's again like these guys are going from street to street, they're walking on alleys, they're walking with rifles in front of them. My reality was not that, right? When I win, my rifle's on my back. I have a metal detector.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, I really want you to specify you're the one in front looking for this stuff.
SPEAKER_02So you because you personally, yeah, I was randomly chosen, finger quote randomly chosen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because that's what I I read about. This is generally, I I don't remember what they call it, it was something about black routes, I think is what they call them. Where in this specific conflict that this is discussing, these guys are going down routes that have not been swept for explosive devices or something like that. Yeah. Because generally you would sweep for explosive devices before you would not necessarily in that war.
SPEAKER_02In in in in my wars, yeah. In in Afghanistan, the the truth of it becomes you don't walk what's not checked, so much so that they do things like they'll use shaving cream, uh, they taught us to use wire, they've taught us to use 550 cord. You're supposed to create the footpath for everybody behind you. Yeah, but that's only because again, you've got to imagine this is five years removed from these guys. These are not the same bomb builders that I fought. Those bomb builders in Iraq were learning how to do this. So they got better over time, they got just like you guys did. Yeah, they got magnificent. They're fucking good. Yeah, I just happen to be better. Yeah. I mean, in the moment, because I've got a lot of friends, I I know a lot of people that weren't better. I got like there's a lot of units that went to Afghanistan. And and again, maybe I'm only as good as I was because of the fighting they did before the start. I'm so good, I think the men was after.
SPEAKER_03I couldn't leave it. I'm so sorry. You're right. It wasn't after. You're right. I'm so sorry. Little column A, low column B. So little education, little recreation. I wanted to say I talked to dad about this film because I think he watched it, and when he came down for Easter, me and Dad stayed up talking about movies and stuff. And yeah, it was adorable. We had a little bonding moment while my uh mom was sitting on her phone in another room by herself engaging with us. And he doesn't like this movie because of all the mistakes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's hard to do and it bugs him.
SPEAKER_03And I think for dad, he he's he's navy, he was navy corpsman, he wasn't wartime infantry like his sons were.
SPEAKER_00I think your dad prefers that term.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he he was uh he was a wet sloppy seaman for most of his military career.
SPEAKER_00So sorry, Bill, don't be mad.
SPEAKER_03I'm just joking. When he watches these movies, he wants a level of not just heroic, but like John Wick, we're the best, and I need to see operational tactical excellence. He doesn't like movies when they show like he hits Jarhead, not because it's inaccurate, but it makes us look like just people. Because the deer hunter scene or went no, he hates Jarhead because he's like, Oh, you guys are like your minds are on your ex and you guys are hanging out being silly, like you're here for war. He wants everyone to be like superheroes.
SPEAKER_02So two I gotta two I gotta check you twice. The first one is yes, he is in the dad is in the navy, but you but you have to remember, and this is a really hard distinction to make dad was a greenside corpsman. So what that that what that means is dad goes through medical school training, he goes through all that stuff, but then he gets assigned to me. Yeah, he gets assigned to Carlos, he doesn't get assigned to Navy guys, he has still. No, I know, yeah. He was he he was assigned to the boys, yeah. So that I in truth, and dad was post Vietnam, right? So dad is he it's after Vietnam, he saw the end of Vietnam. So they are learning the medical interventions that were wrong, the woes of Vietnam. They're trying to learn it, right? So for him, he was at the forefront of that. Yeah, so for him and his time, they're m trying to master this after Vietnam, and then what happens? Nothing. They do it, they do it, they do it, they do it, and then nothing happens, right? So for him in his career, while he was green, he was pushing the best of the knowledge, the medical knowledge that they had. Yeah, right. And then right as he stops practicing, right? Well, right where he was too old, right where he goes blue is kind of when everything kicks off. He now can't go back to that side, right? But but now he has to watch it in this really frustrating sense of like we were pushing the medical knowledge in our era, kind of deal. The second thing is this is what I'm talking about of like he sees it as errors, and I see it as a history book.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02So, like, not to I mean, I I don't know if you want to get into it, but like, so one of the funniest parts is the tourniquet scene. For me, it's hilarious because in my era, as a boot, as a junior marine in this unit, you would be sitting around in your camis, right? So you have boots, pants, uh your shirt, your blouse. I mean, right? And there are hundreds of times where you're sitting around in that gear with also your flak, the same gear that they had that same day, no weapon, but everything else is the same. And sometimes you're sitting around outside or inside doing dick all hundreds of times. And the the the beautiful part about what we did is imagine the three of us are sitting in here, no mics, we're all in that gear, full gear, yeah. Sitting on the floor, you have a monster, and you're smoking a cigarette, right? And we're just shooting the shit, and the door's open. Well, the the beauty of what happens is in this world, your senior will walk by, right? So, like your senior's gonna walk by and see the three of you cuties sitting here, and he's gonna be like, Oh, cool. Whatever's in his hand, right? Let's say his hat or you know, his cover or his phone, he's gonna toss it on the floor and he's like, grenade. He's all Bennett just lost both of his fucking legs figured out. So, like, literally in this moment of us doing this, you better throw that on the ground, and then we're going to have that exact scene that Mendoza has. But we only do this in the Marine Corps because you know what I mean, because of these lessons. But we do them hundreds of times. We do them outside, we do them in the dark, we do them when we're soaking wet, we do them when there's grass all over us, we do them with gloves on.
SPEAKER_03So, what was funny about the tourniquet scene? He does it horrendously.
SPEAKER_02Like, so the the truth of how we're taught now, and again, he does it horrendously because he's probably one of the first dudes to ever put a tourniquet on somebody and save their life. Right? Well, when you think about it like that.
SPEAKER_00The main medic guy is the sniper guy. So that's that's another reason why these guys are so shook up, too. Is like the guy who would be applying the tourniquet, his legs are mush. No, and he's passed out. No. I thought that that's what it was.
SPEAKER_02No, so when it comes to the teams, everybody runs a specific uh a specialty. Okay, right? So he's obviously the sniper attachment. I thought the same as Nick. Okay. Okay, so yeah, no, he's he is the sniper attachment. That is true to say, right? Mendoza is the calm attachment. Yes. But but they're all team, they're all team members.
SPEAKER_00So they're all trained with the same medical equipment? The the truth medical training?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, from again, without knowing any of them or or what team they are, or there's or like you know, specific information. What I'm assuming, and and I can relate to this in my sense, is he was probably the highest level medically trained.
SPEAKER_00Because he carried the kit.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Okay, if you carry the kit if you're the highest level, like not that he's a corpsman by any met by any sense, not that he's a medic, but they all go through a medical training.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but he's not as mechs, he's not a medic specifically. Yes, okay.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no. He he is a sniper, yeah. And and the dude with him with the hair, that's a spotter. They're a team. Yeah, that they are they are in the team specifically for their long-range capabilities. Yeah, he's also medically trained enough that when they deploy, he has a bag.
SPEAKER_00So he just yeah, maybe he just has a little bit more training on our own.
SPEAKER_02And I only I only say that because I was exactly the same thing.
SPEAKER_03I want to ask you, because I think Alex Scarlin really does see this as an anti-war film. Mostly to show how much this sucks. Like this is a horrible experience and it's chaotic. And you know, it I think he's trying to make you feel like me and Nick while watching this go, that looks like hell on earth. That's the worst experience ever. It's pure chaos, and it's scary, and this and that. What do you want to get out of a war film when you watch it?
SPEAKER_02Exactly that. Not exactly what you said, but exactly what I got out of the movie. It was an artistic representation of what I could remember. And it and it was again, like I said, it was no way, shape, or form have I ever experienced an hour as crazy as that hour, right? I mine's uh tied to from five first five to six months long, but like the ability to see moments that I could relate to, and obviously they're not as crazy because they're I'm the one who experienced them, right? In my brain, nothing is going to be as crazy as the the chaos that I've seen because I processed it in time. Like it's harder to see it on a movie and get it, right? But like I think about this all the time is like, remember when we were kids, and I don't know if you remember this, but we're when we were in corpus, we were kids, and there was a car accident and we were getting on the freeway and it cut that dude's head off. And dad got out and was pulling the guy out of the car, right? In that same sense of it, right? Like, no one's going to show me a scene of a car crash that can really give me it's the same thing, right? Of like seeing it was beautiful because it's that stuff can only really be seen in that kind of aspect of it in like Blackhawk Down. There's there's not a lot of times where they show real true what it what the what the home what the house-to-house fighting looked like. And it is nowhere near the fighting that I did, but it's as close as you get. Right? Like I cannot relate to anything else other. I can't relate to World War II, can't relate to Vietnam, even though the terrain looks the same, I can't relate to it, right? So like I can only relate to things like Black Hawk Down, this lone survivor, yeah. You know what I mean? Or 13 hours. Those are super, super unrealistic to life. Yeah, I was like, warfare. was not you know what I mean like I've I've applied a tourniquet not to my best friend but I've applied a tourniquet to a human that needed it in the moment you know what I mean and like I needed to get I needed to be good at applying a tourniquet and I was that's what I was gonna say is a a lot of like that scene of why we talked about it. So at the end of the scene how he puts his knee into his groin so the truth of it like right when we're sitting here and my our senior throws a grain on you the truth is when you lay down the moment that happens we are taught nowadays the first thing I do is I put I throw my knee into your groin. I am immediately cutting off the circulation in a painful manner to you. Yeah yeah and I'm doing it on purpose because if my knees in your groin right then and there the same way as his was cut I'm knee to groin and I'm tourniquet immediately. Yeah I'm not doing I'm not gauzing you until I've tourniqueted you. Okay. Tourniquet is the life saving measure. Yeah that's what you do first step. Everything else is after okay right so I'm tourniqueting first immediately. And then the other point is my knee is in your shit so hard that when I put this when I cinch this tourniquet you're not even gonna feel it. Exactly. So start with hell on earth pain. So when I pull my knee off and it's only the turn because the the goal of the tourniquet has to be cutting off circulation. Right? So if you lose your leg it's because I did it right. Yeah yeah the the intention is not supposed to save your leg. Where I'm putting this it's just saving your life not your leg. Yeah I'm putting this tourniquet on to say this is what I've deemed livable. Everything under this I'm not gone I'm not here to worry about it. Or not worried about it. Yeah it's about saving your life yeah exactly yeah so it in in the groin that makes sense so you make it yeah yeah so let's say you get shot in the arm yeah I'm throwing my knee in your shoulder right there in that pocket. I'm cutting off that circulation and I'm throwing so like again when the JTAC dude is trying to get it over the boot you know how many times I've kicked a real life boot in the face or in the back of the Kevlar or in the front of his chest plate because he's turned around trying to run from the kid from the boot and I just throw it into his back right because they have to I apologize really sorry about that. But like just I've we also figuratively speaking we also got kicked in our backs right in our like like I'm not gonna like that no one gets away from this anyone who made it through and deployed they did it too so they understand. I don't write wrong or indifferent this is hazing right the well this is the right but this is why because when I send a boot to Afghanistan for the first time and he gets randomly selected for lead you know what I mean yeah there's a likelihood he's going to be applying a tourniquet he has to be fucking good at it. He can't look he can't run it through the boot he has to know better.
SPEAKER_03That's kind of what I wanted to talk about with the dad thing is he's older and you know you know our dad but like he has a certain viewpoint of the military and I think he wants it to kind of be shown through media so when it comes to TV or film mostly film he doesn't he doesn't like the weird politics obviously he doesn't want to see America as the bad guy he doesn't want to see it like that. He's never gonna like the idea of maybe we you know just look the other way and let 9-11 happen so we can go do some stuff in other countries like he doesn't like any of that weird you know you can't bring up the golf of tonk into dad type of thing he's always that so he wants a very kind of nationalist prideful viewpoint of the military in films when we get to modern war films we don't have that we've left and lost the well we're fighting not Nazis the obvious bad guy obvious hero everything's gray everything's complicated like we were talking about of civilians insurgents farmers militia like how much are we good versus bad and it's a mix of both at the same time depending on perspective he hates all of that in modern war films he hates the humanizing of they're gonna make mistakes because they're a person and this is a crazy scenario he's like no seal should be perfect superhero type stuff how do you feel being there in watching films deal with the weird politics of the right and the wrong and the good and the bad and because it gets awkward. It gets weird or it can doesn't get weird for me.
SPEAKER_02Okay it it doesn't get weird for me because I I can separate it right is like only because I have such a personal attachment right so when I look at fighting I look at fighting as that yeah right when I look at the you take the morality out of it yeah when I take it when I when I get into the politics of the world I get into it with that in my subconscious right I keep that consciously active in my head being a being aware of being you know aware self-aware of it yeah but yeah no when I watch a movie I can I I can absolutely just see the beauty in the in the war it just the a beauty in the fight right of like for me because here's the other weird part is I come from an era of dudes who didn't get to fight like that. Yeah we didn't get to you have to be proud of the times you got to shoot your saw or your weapon on a fully automatic cyclic rate because it and and and there's a lot of dudes who if if they you know depending if they've been there who are gonna raise their hand have been like oh I have bitch I'm talking about with people in your sights. Yeah don't fuck don't play with me shut your mouth right there's a lot of dudes who have been who under who they know that the truth of it is suppressive fire is a cyclic rate right suppressive fire is when think of a 240 or a 249.
SPEAKER_00So in the movie you see saws yeah the big one big machine guns that's called a saw it's called a 249 okay that's what I carried okay okay a 240 is the big brother version that shoots a 762 how heavy is the saw that you carried a saw should be 23.5 pounds unloaded wow hefty but but we but we run hundred 100 drums right so that box that he has that's a hundred box yeah yeah you should carry somewhere between three to four of those in your pack if you're a saw gunner that's what I carried yeah I carried upwards to 500 and 500 and to six hundred rounds how did you do that as a small guy the guy that boot guy and stock they do it on purpose he's a stocky guy but they do it to fuck with you they do it to kill they do it to break so like when I so when I you stopped yourself from saying to kill you stopped yourself.
SPEAKER_02When I joined when I joined my unit right after I go through all my training I get to my unit when I get to my unit there's only three dudes who are already there when I get there one of my best friends Chris is is one of those guys he had been there two weeks before me so when we get there we're the first ones the five there's five of us out of those five of us me and Chris were the only non shitbags the other two the other three were idiots and one of them was so dumb that he ends up dropping out to go to H and S company doesn't even last right no offense to him but just the way it works. Chris is big Chris is like he's stocky he's William size but he's probably like 170 160 and we were when we were out there I was this I was 140 Chris was still 160 170 but because me and Chris weren't shit bags we were saw gunners saw gunners are your mules your workhorses yeah and they do it to both of us on purpose one they think we're good but two when they see me they see it in the sense of like you're either going to get fucking good and keep up or you're gonna get the fuck out. Yeah and I'm gonna get you out by giving you the worst time you could have yeah it's a challenge to you yeah yeah yeah they're sure that yeah well they're offering a challenge to you to yeah they don't mean it as one but yeah as well life's in your hands yeah you have to either be the best or you have to get your shit kicked up every day. Yeah until you either figure it out or so or newer people show up and you become the less shittier version. Yeah yeah so yeah so I mean so that's a that's a saw but so suppressive fire is the idea of laying down covering fire for something for either movement or for advancement or observation or distraction but providing suppressive fire is exactly that when they're on the roof and they're doing the talking guns that's suppressive fire but when they're crossing the street and they have the guys facing the street and the guys running yeah that's suppressive fire to cross the street. Yeah right I I provide suppressive fire so you cross the street but the truth of the war that I've that I had to go to is you provide suppressive fire when you don't see your targets all the time. In Afghanistan this happens a lot so in the movie it's a really big idea of like oh you don't even see the enemy like this there's like this idea of it. I don't really acknowledge that because I've never like I've seen less of my enemy than I have seen them. That SEAL team is not built to be able to take the fight to them. They're they're an observation post right that's the whole point of them. Yeah that's why whenever they're making the the jokes about the sniper of like what'd you do you let them get in weak yeah it's also because they understand that they're not in a mission for fight they're in a mission to watch yeah I I was in a mission to fight yeah that they only sent us to land to go fight right so it's a lot different in that sense right is they weren't set up that way but they weren't equipped to yeah that they're they're in it's an observation mission that goes awry. Which is also why there's a second team on the other side of town. So what you could imagine is that there's probably a road that the Marines are using that are traveling through probably clearing houses along this road. So the two SEAL units were to make sure that nothing exactly what happened happened. Right? Is that you never have a large collection of fighting force to prepare to ambush said traveling unit. So they're purely were supposed to be the eyes for it. It's looks like what happened was the jump was on them. Yeah yeah right jump was on them and they they got it got yeah right because it sounds like from the listening you know from the movie it sounds like the the operations was a success that they have like that they do hit troops in contact but the the convoy continues to clear they don't have I don't hear anything that says that the convoy like it sounds like they continue forward. They only break down the two teams once the once everything is cleared out like once the operation seems to be cleared in that sense the two teams meet resistance in breaking down which is why it's hard for them to like they're trying to leave. Yeah right and that's why there is no end like the the whole idea of like you know the ending and everything it was that's it that's all it was the truth of it should have been that they would have left that night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah you know what I mean they would have left again at night no blood no smoke and just which I guess reading the trivia for it at least I think Mendoza had said that their main mistake was using the sledgehammer on the wall because they thought that they were just going to be able to be there and not necessarily be detected but because they had to sledge hammer that apartment wall like that everyone knew what it would everyone knew like okay now and that's why they made the joke is why didn't you just blow it and it's like we didn't want to make noise.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And said that didn't work. So I mean the the other reality of that is even though you can look at the compound aerially right you can never truly understand what the compound is doing until you get insight right yeah you don't know what it looks like. This is like the whole zero dark dirty idea or problem right is that we've known by that time and that's how that's a cool part to kind of see how the government looked at it over the over like the course of history is like when you get to the bin Laden raid you see them like well we don't know what's in the compound exactly right now they give a fuck about what's in compounds and how many walls or how many floors and and stuff like that right back then in Iraq they're not they're they they're commandeering houses on the daily you would you'll hear about those guys like this again this story goes awry but when you hear about like a a regular you know SEAL team three dude in Iraq they do 27 of those gotcha 27 of those home insertions and home excerpts they're just but and and sometimes when they get into those they do become killing nest and they still exfield the same way like so sometimes it's observationally sometimes it's to insert for you know a killing field sometimes it's not right but it is it is absolutely part of the plan yeah that is how they that's also why again you'll see it and we do the same thing in a very smaller version but that's why they had everything ready they had breaching shotguns they had the sledgehammer they all have explosives like they had that's exactly what the team is for yeah that's that's that's why they're the teams yeah so Nick you watched this once Sean watched it four times five times more than you do you like this movie I do like I said like I watched over two days and yeah we had a hard time stopping it even even though it's such a harrowing thing like since it takes place in more or less real time like there's hard to find a spot to be like because you want to know what's gonna happen next like are these guys going to be okay are they gonna get out what's going on but like I love the humanization of the troops and of the people I just it is definitely an anti-war film to me but it just I think and I keep coming back to this and and I talked about it in civil war and all this kind of stuff like and I don't mean this in a centrist way of like not choosing sides but like Alex Garland is interested in showing human beings do their things all their faults including killing each other.
SPEAKER_00Yeah like as human beings that's what we do we are very fucking weird and stupid and we are the only you know sentient at least to our level you know intelligent people on our planet to intelligent creatures and yet all we do is just kill each other even though we all pretty much want the same thing. We want to live our lives in a somewhat meaningful way and we want our families and friends to be safe. That the those people want the same thing even though it might be through a different cultural lens or through a different religious lens or whatever the fuck they just want that same thing.
SPEAKER_03And we want the same thing but guess what it's a little bit different and so we want to go kill those fucking people and I think that's what makes to me I would agree that it's an anti-war film but I like the way he did that is it's not about the conversation on how and why we're there. It's an anti-war to show as a human this is a horrible experience. Yes like to be blown up to be in a building and you don't know who's around you to to not be able to put a tourniquet on to need a turn like just to show the experience of what war is sensory like how loud the dirt it's horrible for everybody. That's what I'm saying is like I think that's what makes this uh that's yeah and it's not to say that like there aren't victims and the politics and everything but like just as a human it's a horrible that's and that's what I was saying back to your thing is like he he always goes back to the soul of people is like this is a hell experience. Yeah that's what makes an anti-war film. It's not a movie to show and have a discussion of why we're there it's to to show as a as a human to go through something that traumatic is awful. I think it's the same thing in Civil War that's why she breaks down at the end is like yeah you're not supposed to be able to actually mentally comprehend and compartmentalize that much chaos and trauma within an hour. Yeah like we're not built for that it's gonna crack you somehow in some way some way and I think that's just kidding.
SPEAKER_02But yeah that I agree with you I think that's what tier one operator exactly random is I know exactly how it happened it's how it happens Sean's gonna boot you in the chest I know exactly but in in the moment you're like oh lame I've put this thing on 700 times in today exactly hey I will say for me it's cool to hear that aspect of it because on my end I appre dude this is the first time I mean there's a lot of movies that do a lot of different things you mean like you could relate like dude Star Wars has pretty crazy audibly and visually scenes right but like in the shadow clones this is the first straight into war movie that I I could relate to like that my wartime effort could relate to feel seen yeah like I've I've never seen a scene that attempted to manifest the emotion of dry humping in front of your friend in the middle of the night of the of an IED. Yeah and it and if you combine that to the grenade scene man I mean it just feels as close as I can remember every second of it. Like the the from the the ears to the chest to the voice to like the the eyesight to your fingertips like it felt as close as I've ever seen something get to what I've been and again I I have all my limbs so it's not like super super the same like but I've been in IED like detonations that I didn't cause right that I was this close.
SPEAKER_03The scene's not just about the guy that got hurt it's about the people trying to they're in the room with the guy that got hurt. The the scene's about having to be in the room with a guy that will not stop screaming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah this is a buddy this is a buddy of yours you you're embedded with him you guys just had some fun the previous night whatever that's the whole setup of the the intro right but like there is a closeness that you have with these people in terms of your training and the way that you have each other's back like the I think the tight knitness of combat soldiers cannot be understated and this movie depicts it extremely well from an outsider's perspective and yeah when you are one you're your shit got rocked but then this dude who you've been embedded with and you have this personal relationship with or this professional relationship with and a certain level of skills and like you said the drills over and over and over and over again that you probably drilled through maybe not as much as you did uh since it's different wars and they've learned from this stuff but like now he won't stop fucking screaming and you're worried that he's gonna fucking die like that's I mean no one can deal with that I didn't even think of that to be I didn't even see that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah here's we have such boring jobs and you guys have kids you've come home from your boring job and your kids just being too loud and you're like I can't fucking think I'm in such a bad mood I can't get anything I'm trying to do work at home and it the house is too loud. Yeah yeah and you're like I don't even want to eat I don't I'm just cranky could you like can you imagine now life and death on the exactly like yeah you're you're your legs are blown up and you're screaming as loud as fucking possible and you can't tell me shut up my neighbor is shooting at me yeah while that's happening.
SPEAKER_02You're not allowed to be like can everyone be quiet for a second you can't you know it's crazy I I don't have that you didn't click with that so well because it's a reality to you right but meaning it's it's it's it's closer to reality but when I when I think of my moments I would I never wanted that that wasn't like so like that never entered my head yeah I know I've talked to you on the phone there's always screaming and it's as if you don't even know like when I when I think about yeah so like what so like there's two big ones right is I've been I've been in an IED explosion but no one lost limbs okay and I've been attached to a unit that walked onto an IED explosion where people did lose limbs right so it wasn't my unit wasn't my blow up I'm good in my sense right yeah so like those are like two separate entities the entity of like us on our explosion purely right no one loses limbs but there is absolutely a lot of that same chaos there are people crying there are people screaming right there are people confused but never ever and this is the same for when it was in our unit when we walk onto one right when we're on that we're it was a QRF one that we hit on and when we're in with them kind of like react it's a quick reaction force to kind of help them out in in moments of need right so they hit one we get onto them to join the fight even when we got on scene I specifically I mean not specifically I guess but like I can vividly know that I never thought that when I hear their cries I never hear their cries of like man I was so like I did no I what I remember is I remember looking at them the fear in their eyes and it was like a don't fuck this up it was I don't remember like a shut the fuck up or like I need to think I I remember like a I'm my brother's keeper. Yeah like like yeah like if if you're like like the Shia LaBeouf send me Lord like like if I'm here on you now I never can think of a moment where I was like dude shut the fuck up what I can think of is like I need to help this dude so that he can not scream right like I need to help her like him not screaming is going to be Once I can get him. So every time when I'm thinking of like him still screaming, I'm like, what the fuck can I do? Like, what am I not thinking? I I can't think of a single moment where I where I can even remember. Because even afterwards, when you think of it, like I've been in another one where a bunch of civilians, nationals, and other forces hit a big ass V bid and bringing ass fucking babies and and limbs into like our camp for us to help. Even in that scenario, when we were in the tent, it it it wasn't. I mean, again, this could all be because of the the lessons of history. It could be, it could be. And it could also be that I was with good dudes. Like, I mean, our our EOD Corpsman that was with us was fucking the best. Brandon Guess is a is a magician. I've seen dude. I watched that dude stick his bare ass hand in someone's just like in just thigh. Just in turn thigh. Oh, in balls or something. But like he's he's a he's a magician. But I don't know if if it's because he was great or the training over the years for that, but that's what you're supposed that's what they're supposed to train you to do.
SPEAKER_00There's the intention is to train you to be able to operate well and efficiently and do your job in these extremely harrowing circumstances. So that does mean that uh it's not just all that you're a psychopath, no, which we already knew. I mean, there's part of it. That's that's you know, that's 40% of it, or 30%, but that's 60 or 70% is your training. That's the whole point.
SPEAKER_03They train you to operate under these hellish conditions, but uh, but the the film they're purposely the the room is small, the building's small, there's a lot of people in there, it's constantly smoky, there's debris, like the comms are crazy, yeah. Exactly. So like he is purposely making it the audio chaotic and overwhelming and overstimulating, and he's he's pushing that on just for people that aren't trained and experienced in that world to look at that and go, I wouldn't know which way is north or south, I wouldn't know which way's up or down. Like you lose your sense of everything because of how overwhelming those situations are. That's not easy to do in a film because there's so many levels of detachment, but I think he did it. I think those scenes are utterly chaotic, and it's not through fast cut edits, it's not through handheld shaky, it he doesn't do that Peter Berg shit where like you don't even know what you're looking at. Like, this is a focused camera frame. I still know where I am, I know the people that I'm looking at, but I'm feeling the chaos, I'm feeling the anxiety.
SPEAKER_02That's not easy to do, and and he he does it in a way that you feel it in the silence too. Yes, yeah, big time. You're like the silence is like a big gulp of anxiety, yes, yeah, super and it and again, like when I think of it, like again, the the one where thankfully no one loses limbs, but the explosion I've been in, it was identical. It was identical of like the spaces of nothing were crazier than the spaces of noise, you know what I mean? Because like the spaces of nothing are like something's coming, yeah. Why is it nothing? Right? You know what I mean? Or like it's the unknown, it's the abyss.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, it does, it does, and so I felt that watching this. Yeah, I've never really felt that in a lot of places and movies, and I definitely felt it watching like the silence. I was like, I was too.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, because that's what the he utilizes it brilliantly. One, we should uh acknowledge that there is no score, there's no score in this, uh, which is extremely accurate. Uh, it's not, you know, we don't have fucking weird ass stuff to make us feel a certain way. There's no anticipatory building. Yeah, the racist Muslim chant song from Black Hawk Down that we're supposed to already get mad at just hearing it. Yeah, so it's it's the the sound design is brilliant because you have this contrast of the extremes. You have explosions and you have gunfire. They're two of the most loud things any human beings will ever experience, and then you just have nothing, just the quiet. It's kind of the sound design, instead of having like the call to prayer or whatever like that, you have dogs bark outside, which I guess they did that on set. So they had like the recordings of the neighborhood pre-made. Oh, interesting. So during those scenes, they would play them outside the set. Oh, that's cool. So you would actually have the guys like hear the dog bark and they'd actually react to it to make it more realistic and stuff. So that's really cool. It's a fucking brilliant way to do it because that first third of the movie before the grenade, it's so fucking tense because you start out with this super energetic uh intro with the movie, yeah. The music video, and then what do you cut to? Black. I wanted to say, and it just silent, they're so quiet when they're getting into the house and stuff. I had this always contrasting.
SPEAKER_03In that when it cut, I had like you're finishing the song in your head, sure. Like it was still kind of bleeding into the scene for me. I thought that was clever and pretty cool. I think that's kind of what he wanted because it was so loud.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it gets up cut, it gets up there, there's jumping dance, you know what I mean? It's like very, very big, big, big into like a heavy drop of of dead silence completely. So you can feel it echo into that darkness. I thought that was interesting. Yeah, it worked that way.
SPEAKER_00Whatever the songs call on me, right? And you have the military illusions of like, you know, you're you're being called upon to do these things. Oh, that's not why at all. I we we love moves and butts.
SPEAKER_02No, not even moves and butts. So, like, this is a very a silly thing, but like when I deployed, um, Marina and the Diamonds was massive. You guys know who Marina and the Diamonds is? Oh no, hilarious. Like look it up after, and you're gonna be like, excuse me, Marina and the Diamonds was a big deal when in our unit because one person had a couple songs from her, right? So, like again, like Ellie Golding was kind of big at the end of the yeah, like it is true that we have this attachment to not heroism, but um adoration. And it's not because of your stereotypical we smash through all of your town girls, but it's it's from the others, it's from the other, right, right, is what the movie doesn't show is the the ship ride, right? The three weeks on boat or the plane ride for you know a nine-hour flight and and all this stuff. Like a lot of guys when we deploy, we don't have families, we don't have wives and kids. Like you gotta think about it. I depend on it.
SPEAKER_00Because they're kids I was 17 at the first time. That's another thing. These guys are so fucking young. Exactly. It's crazy, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so like when we go, we we don't have a lot of that, and yeah, you have girls. Come on, don't just yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? So, like it is very true that that is a very huge part of our um society ecosystem in that sense.
SPEAKER_00Mutual masturbation with your fellow bros.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I mean, like again in in 2011. I don't know, you tell me in 2011, I don't know if the states was doing this. Me and my friends preparing to to kind of to go to Afghan, we were in love with K-pop bands. Okay, yeah, like Japanese early on, yes, yeah, yeah, Japanese pop and K-pop bands, dude, like white chocolate with like a crate, dude. We we would have music videos saved on our computer. Uh not because we thought the girls were attractive or like we were like gooning out to them, but it's this idea of of the pretty pinup girl you yearning for your admiration being being a stupid hero that no one's ever gonna know. Yeah, yeah. Because those guys die and they go on a plaque somewhere where no one ever reads their fucking name. Yeah, because we're not SEALs, yeah. So they have a lot of that. That that call to me was exact. Is it I have done something very, very similar to that. Like, we have listened to a couple of Marina Marina songs before we've gone on patrol hundreds of times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Hundreds of times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's it's it's a psychological building.
SPEAKER_02Heads will roll. You know how many times I've listened to Heads Will Roll at like 5 a.m. getting ready to step off. Of course, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, talk to me, yeah, for sure. So, like, yeah, that that I saw it in that sense. I didn't even think about it of like this call to know.
SPEAKER_00It's it's an it's an extra blair it's because Mendoza says that was actually the song that they looked to, but it but also for a move a movie about the military, it works on that extra level.
SPEAKER_03And the other song in the the end song is by Lowe, which shout out Alex Carl and put it in. The the last lyrics when it's showing all the people and then it shows the Iraqi family, it just says all that you gave wasn't enough. That's the thing that lines up with the Iraqi family's photo.
SPEAKER_00And that's and that and I I like that they show that photo too, because you have actual photos of the place, yeah, all these kind of things. I don't know who took those photos or whatever, but the team did.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I I I yeah, like I don't have them anymore, but I always make the joke I've got a laptop at my house that's it's a bricked Mac. It has probably 400 photos of when I went to Saint Everything.
SPEAKER_00I love that one of the one of the soldiers took a photo of their family, and and they're not forgotten. No, and their faces are blurred. I you know, I like that a lot of the other guys because they're I like that maybe they're still just they have to, they have to, yeah. They're still in active duty and so they get in our podcasts, yeah. Yeah, so uh so I I really yeah they don't ruin the rollout, especially the nationals just make it a protein bar.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the the nationals have a lot of like nationals that live that yeah, they're that allies are tough huge problems.
SPEAKER_03I know witness protection type stuff.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, a lot of dudes will try to like if you're if you're attached to a team long enough, they'll yeah, the teams are are pretty good about trying to work like even us when we had our terp from day one to the end of the day, and we tried to bring we tried to make him a national. Like, I mean I don't know how far it went, but like, yeah, that stuff happens a lot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it makes total sense. Yeah, what happened to the second guy? Did he just run off? I don't remember.
SPEAKER_03I think they both blew up.
SPEAKER_00The nationals, yeah. I thought he was I thought the other national guy was the first dude to get up, but maybe I wasn't.
SPEAKER_04I thought it was the sniper.
SPEAKER_02Oh I thought he was the he's who's looking up. So and then and then the there you have him, you have the captain, you have Mendoza, and then you have the uh guy who's hit, the one that we said is a baby is a baby. The Sean. Yeah, yeah, the guy with a femoral cut. Yeah, that guy. Sorry, yeah, no big deal. Punk bitch on the floor. Sorry, punk bitch. But so like do you have those guys? Yeah, you saw as Wiener, it's true. Yeah, covered in blood. Yeah, William was he's the human torch.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's burned into my old leg.
SPEAKER_02Burned in. Uh so yeah, that's what I I I assumed the two nationals died.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I couldn't remember because the the bald guy, I could so maybe uh speaking of died, other than the air support gray, black and white screen, we don't shoot anybody. There's no gunshot. We kill no one on screen. That's true. Well, one guy gets hit at the end. I don't think you visually see us hit anybody.
SPEAKER_02You don't think that guy gets hit? One guy at the end, one guy got hit at the end while he was crossing the street when they were getting on the tanks. Yeah, yeah. You don't see him get hit. I agree. No, you see. I know we got him. I don't think you see it.
SPEAKER_03They don't I agree. They don't show like they don't like the hit. The rooftop scene, even the Bradleys, uh, they go down and then it hits. Like it it feels intentional.
SPEAKER_00You don't see any of those, yeah. Yeah, you don't see them quote unquote succeed.
SPEAKER_03And that I made this joke with Silver Ward. This ain't Lone Survivor, this isn't an hour and a half of kill shots.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's not what this movie is. Which is good, it's it's good. You know what I mean? Because like, again, like even Carla, a lot of those dudes that were not SEAL team guys, like again, I idolized them, but like if you saw footage of them fighting, you'd be like, they look like Afghan. Do you know how many dudes in Iraq again that no no knock on the game, but do you know how many guys in Iraq were leaning rifles over sharewells?
SPEAKER_03Like that's half the yeah.
SPEAKER_02But that's why they're clearing with grenades, is because they knew they didn't have the capabilities to clear rooms with barrels and shit's hard, bro.
SPEAKER_03But I mean, so yeah, I think he is doing it for two reasons from the the film point is uh it adds to the chaos, is like we're not even get somebody, we're not clearing the the threat out, like it keeps building and building and stacking, and I think they're on our roof and they're next door at all. So it adds to the chaos, but I also think it goes back to how he views the war overall is like we didn't make ground and then we left. Yeah, like we we just kicked up this chaos, we experienced trauma, and then we just went to the next place.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's very intentional. Yeah, yeah. I think for me, the my my favorite little bit of weird detail stuff is that roof with the two saws. The way they're moving is not like anybody moves any other movies.
SPEAKER_00It doesn't look cool, it doesn't look heroic.
SPEAKER_03They're like fuck fuck and to be as low as they were and still holding that heavy gun. Yeah, like crawling and pulling like the movement to that. I was like, there's no other movie that makes people move like every other movie would make them like like a video game. No, it's like Rambo and pop up and down, yeah, like the running almost crouched.
SPEAKER_00I was like, that's so different looking doing cover fire or and they're not having a good time. Exactly. Where in other movies it's like fucking intention, you're a badass. You look cool. These guys are just like fuck, dude. Fucking.
SPEAKER_02You know the Black Hawk Down scene. When they're when they're doing covering fire, covering movement in Blackhawk Down, you know what I mean? Like what is it? You should you see faces, he's like, ah yeah, posing. It does have that, yeah. It does have this felt like any time I've ever covered in covering. Yeah, you're like, this is terrifying.
SPEAKER_03If he's if he's shooting cover at the guy in front of him, there's four guys to the side shooting at him, and he's every time he pops up, he's terrified. Also, when they run back into the door, how close the bullets are hitting the wall to them. Oh, yeah. I was like, Alex, like, brava, buddy. Yeah, this is such a good scene.
SPEAKER_02That's my favorite scene. It's so tense. That is a trueness in both of the conflicts in OIF and OEF. Is like that is a very true representation of our fight. Yeah. Is exactly like one of the most stolen valorous moments I have of my life is I'm climbing onto a roof. We're we're taking fire and we're we're about to start returning fire. And as I'm climbing onto the roof, I'm throwing my automatic weapon over first, and then I'm kind of jumping in into it. And as I'm getting onto the roof, the sandbag that is the wall explodes with a with a round, just just blastes. And my NCO, my my squad leader at the time, he turns and looks at me, he goes, and again, he's my captain winners, like you know what I mean. The kind of deal, but he's like, get the fuck on the roof because I have the automatic weapon. Yeah, he they need me to get the the fight up. So it was but again, it's a it's a small moment in a small portion of time, but it is it is the same.
SPEAKER_03And so the fact that he has a small moment, a small portion of time that for only sheer luck and mathematical minuscule changes that it wasn't the end of your story, yeah. And it had nothing to do with you, like no decision you made prevented it not being the end. Yeah, it wasn't like I was out of shape or yeah, completely. It was just by the timing, the barometric pressure, you know what I mean? Like that it's not the end of your story, yeah. Oh, that's insane, dude.
SPEAKER_02So so in that sense of it, I agree. Like a lot of that, a lot of a lot of our true fighting looked that way. Yeah, right, of providing covering fire to an area, but I don't really know, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know what our what our contact is looking like. Like, I'm calling out that it's a hundred maybe seventy-five meters in front of us, right? And we're fighting at that distance, but I don't fucking know. I don't I don't know if there's four behind this or two.
SPEAKER_03So I don't think he ever went out of his way to make anybody look or feel cool. I think back to the guy walking, you made the joke, the guy walking accidentally kicking the leg, like or the the marine guy who trips. Yeah, those details. Those details are are in to show the chaos and the just it's it's crazy and messy, but I think other people would take those. Michael Bay takes those out. Yes, Peter Berg takes those out. Guys that are trying to make the troops look cool and make us look cool. The closest we get to that, I think, is at the final Kazovac when we are stacked up and we're clear, we're in the road and we're clearing everything. But even there, it feels terrifying. They're out in the open. Well, and at any moment, this could go horrible.
SPEAKER_00Even as soon as they're in there, the fuck when the door's coming up, they're like, close the fucking door. Yeah, they're as well. Yeah, like this thing is the slowest.
SPEAKER_03This is Alex Scarlin, he'll never leave the horror thing. Yeah. Of like, that is like the monster's fucking still out there. Like close the door. I gotta get out.
SPEAKER_00And all you hear is all on the tank. So they're just fucking shooting these things. And you're just fucking sitting there trying to come down from your fucking adrenaline hole.
SPEAKER_03In this seat, yeah, like and you're just watching this just the longest like, god damn it. The other thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's not, he's not, they're not like shooting out, like trying to be badasses.
SPEAKER_03They're like, fuck. You're trying to get to the back, you're trying your best to get out of the light. The other thing that I think Alex Scarland keeps with the whore is after that grenade goes off in that room, no one wants to go back in that room. Yeah, like everybody's like, fuck, we gotta go back in there. Like, it's that's a scary room, yeah. And there is tension that he keeps, he keeps that horror element with everything I think he's uh ever done, honestly. When he starts directing, is he can't he can't leave it.
SPEAKER_00And that and that's the thing, you can get into existential horror, be it the fucking sun and sunshine, you can get into actual horror bears, but you can't have to use bear monsters in eye annihilation or psychological horror like a pretty girl with a knife, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, the exact yeah, femme fatale kind of stuff. But nothing is actually more horrific than war because it's fucking real. All that other stuff, we get it. Psychological concepts. The this nature's scary, right? With the bear, kind of you're getting into that, the scariness of nature, but like this is something we uh invented. Yeah, it feels manufactured. Yeah, we we made up war. Yeah, human beings are like, okay, we can make a bunch of money by doing it, killing all these people.
SPEAKER_02Am I super red pilled to to necessarily because this this is lame, and this is the the redis I I can't do this, is too much, but like it would be fair to say, like, I mean, dude, silverback gorillas have territory wars. Sure. You know what I mean? Like the the mammal complex is kind of fucking and fighting. Well, there is some of them. Life and death, or some of them, nature nurture, but yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because Nick said, the only thing humans want, part of that is to feel safe and protected. Yeah, that's where this all comes from is if you're bigger than me, the fight or flight. Yeah. Of like, I don't like you're bigger than me. That means you can take things from it.
SPEAKER_00We've made it into an industry, we've made strategies. That's the difference because of course nature is brutal, life and death, right? And the only reason that we have any kind of moral semblance and we have these ideas of morality is because we know we're gonna die, right? So we know that, like, oh shit, I'm taking away this thing that I have from this person when I'm killing them or whatever, right? Where nature doesn't have that, it's just kill or be killed. It's about eating, it's about there's no necessary it's a it's about breeding, even when Silverback realised if you have territory wars, they take your yeah, it's about it's about passing on your genes, right? It's about mates and that kind of shit. And of course we we kill each other for that too, but we've made it, we've invented technology, we've invented weapons that make countries create anime and Godzilla and like you know what I mean. But you change entire cultures.
SPEAKER_03Here's the thing is the fact that this is an industrial thing. I did I I'm trying not to say an industrial complex because it sounds so you don't want to get flagged. Well, no, it just sounds so corny at this point to keep using those type of buzzwords for this, but we had to tell you to go to that city to go fight. It wasn't a natural impulse of I have to go to that city to go fight. That's the difference from the silverback gorillas and what this is, is there has to be like almost sort of like a court order of well, we talked it out, and now I'm paying you to go put yourself in that situation. Your instincts and the animal part of your brain will kick in once it gets kicked up.
SPEAKER_00Was that adrenaline kick?
SPEAKER_03You would never go there in the first place. You know what's this is the diplomacy that's forcing you into the animal brain.
SPEAKER_02But you know what's cool? And this is this is this is kind of the beauty in in the in the conflicts that we're re referring to. Is you can joke, and I joke too. I'm not saying I'm not, you know what I mean, but you can joke that they're farmers, right? It's fair to say that. That's fair, right? Yeah. But two things stick out at me.
SPEAKER_00You can't grow anything in the desert. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02But but but like two things stick out at me is the first one is when I was over there, they would make fun of me a lot all the time, right? And so there's a there's a true thing that happens when you're the military, you're you're no no no, yeah, I'll get it, I'll show you. So like there's a true thing that happens in Afghanistan, maybe in Iraq, I don't know, but uh probably. But in Afghanistan, we're walking around all the time and we're talking to locals. So what happens is sometimes you're I've done this, I can think of more than a handful of times, where I've looked at someone in the street, I have my stuff on, my mind's and and I'm talking to a a ma'am, a military-age male, right? And me and him are conversating, and I'm looking at him, and he has a smirk, and I have a smirk. And it's because I fucking know he's Talib. I fucking know he is. I know when the sun goes down, there's an AK in his hand, and those sandals run through the dirt. I know it, and he knows it. And when we look at each other, we're laughing, right? And so be that you know that's a truth in in the Afghan fight, and so because of that, what happens is they will talk shit. They are good enough that what happens is you'll see the older women or the older men when you move through a town and they're a Talib-friendly town, right? You'll you'll be you know, you know, saying a yee, like you're saying hello to everybody, kind of deal. And when they're talking to you, and when the turp is is kind of like relaying it, you'll I've I've heard this thing a couple of times of like think of like an old Afghani man or like a man and woman and like some kids looking at me, and it sucks that I have to give them this ammo, but like I've heard this of them be like, you look no older than Muhammad, who's 17, or you look just like a lot he this cable Where's your dad? Exactly. You're a baby. Well you're little little twig fighter boy, right? Yeah, yeah. Damn. They do like to do because they press you and you gotta go. We'll see on the court. Exactly. Be like, hey, we'll see. We'll see who puts more stuff, right? Yeah, like let's see who, yeah, who who wants to go rebound for rebound. Yeah, but but it it is that way because dude, they are good enough that they know they are good enough, right? They are and and that that fight or flight thing, dude. I mean, it is in so in our group, again, whole different war, but we lived in a compound. It's not our com it, we yeah, we commandeered a compound very similarly, but we didn't kick anyone out of it. They were already empty when we showed up. Uh I'm sure they someone else kicked them out, just not. They left at their own volition. But but we did live in a compound. Is an Airbnb, they said just just clean up. Except we lived with seven nationals. They're at the time they're called the AMP, Afghan National Police. Yeah, but these are dudes from this town. They are or the the technically the ALP, right? Afghan local police. These are not uniformed guys, they have homes, right? But these seven guys would come and stay with us when we were here in the compound. So yeah, it is it is kind of you know what I mean. So like there's a lot of communicating with them, but in this group, because they slept in the rooms, we slept in the in the four in the open area, like the the patio, whatever you'd call it, open space. But in this group, out of these seven guys, you only had we the oldest guy we had is a moosh. He's a he's a moosh adin fighter, so he is like an an OG.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. OG classico.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, other than him, you had like three dudes who are in their forties, and then your remaining three guys are somewhere between 11 and 19 years old.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just teenagers, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And these three kids are hilarious because they're the biggest shit talkers, but when it comes time to go patrol, they're fucking terrified. Oh, yeah. When shit gets cracked off, they're they don't want to fire. Yeah. Like they're not in, and they're not taking, they're not doing the the heroin dip that everyone else is, they're not on the cocoa. So like they don't have that extra fight in them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it is teens, they they got a big mouth, but they don't want a big mouth. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it sh but it but it's beautiful in the sense of like take up arms. Like the the the the populace here, dude, they did. And like you're right, technology, you know, but guess what? They still fucking won. Yeah, they still kicked us out. Well, that's they took over the bases we had, yeah, and now they won. Yeah, right. I only won while I was there.
SPEAKER_03I was gonna say, because like to go back to your original is like, yeah, we can call them farmers, like they've been fighting here for hundreds of years like us. You just got here.
SPEAKER_00War is a human thing. We have all this technology. America has industrialized it, right? We've made it into this fucking big business and tied it into our economy and revolutionized all these technologies for war, but it's a human thing, it's a shared thing. Yeah, we are weird fucking animals who choose to kill each other, and we've been doing it ever since we fucking did it.
SPEAKER_02You bring up a uh hilarious point. There's a uh we found a compound once that it I I I have a I have a hit and find outside of the compound. Awesome, that's pretty normal, but because of it, we clear the compound. It's a cachet. So we catch like dude, there's like 25 jugs in one room, there's battery packs in this room, and they're building pressure plates here, and all the completes are in this, like this little back of this truck, dude. It's a fucking gold mic for an average old squad to find this, like, dude, we were like the biggest dicks, yeah, like the coolest dudes in the at the party. But it's hilarious because I still remember when they're because we don't we don't use cuffs, we use zip ties, yeah, right. So when they're sitting there on the floor looking at us because we we didn't, it wasn't a fight, you can't, you know, ROEs, you can't just kill them when you capture them, right? Kind of so when we're sitting there talking, when they're cuffed up, it's hilarious because he's sitting and he goes, What you're you think you're cool because you found this one? I'm like, Because even they know, yeah, like he said, of like and it's kind of like the the idea of like they would always tell us he'd be like, We'll just if you're too good, we'll just wait until you rotate. We know that you Americans you we know you marines rotate every nine months. Yeah, so if you're too good, we won't fight you, we'll hang back. Exactly. We won't fight you, and we'll take care of you. We'll see who replaces you. Yeah, yeah. Let's see if they're as good. So, like, they are these are not rats. You know what I mean? You are not, this is not a hog shoot. Yeah, this is not what you're doing. We are fucking you we there's a reason we we backed out as Sicily as we did. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, uh applaud them in that sense because like Civil War brings up, you don't get to decide when the fight hits your door.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02You know what I mean? Yeah. Thankfully, we're all spoiled enough right now that we can abuse the ability we have to fight over voting space and mental capacities and social barriers, right? But like they don't, you know what I mean? Since 80, what, fucking three? Yeah, those dudes have only known straight cards. There's actual life and death. It's not we're not fighting, yeah. That's the culture war versus real war. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, yeah, like this isn't what is in Jalisco, but like one day it could be. And the beauty of it, we know people who live in Guadalajara and and and Tijuana, right? They didn't get to pick that fight either.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're still living in Mexico. They didn't get to pick that fight. And any kids that they have that are related to us that are fighting age males, we need to send them back. Oh no, they're if they're still there, you can assume. Well, you told me to say that. You know what they're going through. They're either joining the fight or they're being pushed out by boundaries, or they're being pushed under the thumb of someone. So, like, the fight is hitting someone's door. I I appreciate the fact that he bounces between these two beauties, right? This beauty of one is the chaos of war, and then the other one being civil war of like, now let me show you what you thought you wanted at your front door. Yeah, by using all of these imagery that is silver relative to our lives, right? Not just DC, the the bugloo boys, right? Yeah, like the there were like the state lines, right? That like they do he does so many things in the movie to kind of show like this is your backyard down, yeah, right. This was another aspect of showing, like, look at what we do in people's backyards. Yeah, and then he kind of grows, you know, kind of from there. Like again, just like Dredd, right? It's not his backyard, he's a cop in a tower. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, it is always this enforcement of like the fight comes to your door.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, Nick, the uh Sean has now said it twice. There's a beauty in war. Well, no, I know it I think it works. I honestly like the through suffering, you feel the closest to God. Like, I totally get what you're saying. I mean talk about in the chaos. Well, again, I get it.
SPEAKER_00And it whether as conscious or not, human beings are always acknowledging that we only have this one life. And when you're getting fucking close to death, that means something. It makes you acknowledge that in a way that's conscious or unconscious or subconscious, whatever the fuck. Like, and yeah, we have mastered this fucking art of war and of killing each other. It's fucked up, but it's something we do and we do it well. That's horrible about humanity.
SPEAKER_02We're good at killing each other, and you know what's crazy is you have to remember it's not just that we do it and we do it well, is that somehow we keep breeding humans that enjoy it. Well, yeah, there's some glory to it or whatever. Because when when you think about it, right? When I joined the Marine Corps, it is like that is why Marine Corps infantry glorifies our history. Yeah, I can tell you what 2-7 did in every war that I never was part of. OEF, OIF, Vietnam, the the the Korean, the Korean War. Yeah, I can tell you what my unit did because what it it it and we honestly because and this is why you see those dorky loser vets who have Spartan tattoos, who have like Aztec million, because like we continue like those guys, I really truly believe, those fight creatures in this society, they have to tie themselves down to the most primal fighter that they can in their in their lineage.
SPEAKER_00It's the heritage, heritage of the soldier.
SPEAKER_02Those white boys in the infantry, I promise you, every one of them thinks they're fucking Vikings.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Every fucking one of them thinks they come from some Nordic background. And honestly, they need to. They need to to kind of carve that out of their out of their soul. It's the story we tell ourselves. Yeah. And some of those guys are right, and some of them are liars. Sure. And and and the and the beauty of it is you only get to find out like Eric Banner says. That's the that's the hilarious part, is it's such an unnecessary conversation he has. It doesn't belong, and it's not true, but it's the truest thing anyone's ever said about war.
SPEAKER_03And I I think that's why war films speak to even people like me and Nick that are very um cool for it. Sissy. Yeah, on our couch. That you said so much with just so little. But yes, that is it even speaks to us because there is that like test your might, see what you're made of. There is an honor, there is a like through rigor and fortitude in all of that.
SPEAKER_00We're men, man, we're destructors, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and so to see it in film and to see it in an entertaining way, or to like get close at a safe distance, that's why war films still speak to people that even while watching it, I can go. I I hate that we're there. I hate that my family was there, I hate that my cousin's never gonna be the same person ever again for the rest of his life because what he went through there. Yeah, we never had to be there. Like, I can feel all of that and still watch a movie and go, it's fucking kind of cool. Like, it's kind of cool, yeah, it's heroic. It is, and I think it does speak to us because those thoughts and feelings are legitimately real in a lot of people because even in the worst of most horrific circumstances, people are while you're fucking trying to you're trying to kill someone with cover fire, but you're saving your buddy's life.
SPEAKER_04Exactly.
SPEAKER_00It's it's those and think about it.
SPEAKER_02He he makes he's making a mental decision. He what does he say before he puts his knee in? He goes, I'm about to put you, you know what I mean. There was contemplating the the the act of putting his friend through more pain to attempt to save his life, but in the same moment, that family, he's all fuck off bitch. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00That that that that wing of value. That's what the beauty of it. It's the horror and the beauty together. Yeah. You know what I mean? In the same in the same moment. And it's the contradiction.
SPEAKER_02And I'm glad that it what's coming out first, this or Civil War?
SPEAKER_03Civil War comes out Monday this next week.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so the the cool part about everyone that will listen to Civil War and then we'll get to this, is you have to understand this is why Civil War is and can be a movie. Because when you when you think of those what are they called? Bugaloo boys, yeah. The fucking dorks, right? The Hawaiian shirt, the Hawaiian shirt gay lords, when you think of those guys, and then you also think of what's his name from Friday Night Lights?
SPEAKER_03Jesse Plum and Jerry.
SPEAKER_02When you think of the army dude on the in the site, like those are two extremes, right? But here's the beauty. This is why you have to not have to, but this is why the Marine Corps and the ability to reach kids is so necessary, is because you don't get to pick who comes home and learns what they learn, right? You don't, and if you don't treat that child the right way, you can birth what turns into a Hawaiian shirt wearing creature. Yeah. At the end of the day, the fight is gonna hit your door, and maybe not even in my generation, right? Maybe I die, I never I talk all this shit, and I never even throw a single bullet in the states, never. But like the type of cloth I I'm cut from, unfortunately, will continue. And for the sake of the people that intend to live in the North Valley while we fight, they're going to need us to be cut from that cloth, right? Because like you don't get to you know what I mean, you don't get to decide who is going to, you know, who will be my champion. Yeah, you don't get to pick, man. I don't I don't you need to hope you have enough warriors on your side.
SPEAKER_00I'm happy to know Sean, and I'm glad I don't I'm not gonna have to call upon some meal team six guy, you know, instead.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, because because and that's the sad part of like when we joke about the realities of civil war of dudes being too red pilled, that you know they're gonna fight on the wrong side. Like, that's okay, but that's the same thing that they're seeing in you. I mean, that's a military age male in that movie who's in that home. He could have been a fighter, right? Yeah, like that. He's not a fighter, he's just a dude. That is that that is the reality of what the home fight can look like. So it is cool that Civil War will hit and then this will hit because this is a visual representation of the moments that Civil War doesn't give you, right? Civil War doesn't give you a straight bleeding out moment, right? Which is cool, they don't need that for Civil War, but for any of those 12 to 22 year old dorks who thinks it looks cool, I they need to also experience warfare because warfare shows you those are the best dudes, and that's what they looked like. Yeah, if you're not that, I'm running your pockets. You need to be careful. Yeah, this is not a game, right? There are real monsters out here in the dark, yeah, and I just happen to be a small one.
SPEAKER_03It's really scary, even if you're the most trained and experienced in the scenario. Which you are not still terrifying. Exactly. It's for them, it's terrifying. So could you imagine what you're gonna do?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, don't fucking respawn. Exactly.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that's the biggest thing that I think of all the time now is like oh yeah, you don't know, like literally, you don't what even when they were at night up against the wall, you don't know for sure if a sniper is not just on you. Yeah, dude. Like you don't know, and and the scene that which one the first one, the second one, or the third one in the line, you don't know which one the guy picked because it's all so random.
SPEAKER_02And that the scene that you talked about on the roof when they're talking guns with the saws, dude, it's so scary because he knows I need a pop-up to provide suppressive fire. But you're right, he gets over the ledge, he knows targets are on this house. But there's stuff coming all over, so he's like, I gotta get down because I'm not even sure when that corner is gonna stand up. Exactly. That's the that is the beauty that I can share too. Because when you're sitting out in the middle of an open space and you're taking pop shots, you don't get to pick who has a dragonoff and who has an AK. Yeah, you don't get to pick who's running a PKM and an RPG. Or who's just legitimately aiming, or who's shooting a you don't get to pick who's a real Pakistani mercenary or you or who's gonna be, I mean, because that that's a that's a Tim Kennedy joke. There's not truly Pakistani mercenary, but it is true to know that they do import fighters, yeah. They import good ones too, right?
SPEAKER_00So, like you don't know what you're going up against.
SPEAKER_02You never so the That's terrifying to me. And the stereotype of like, oh, I'm fighting farmers, those are the dudes that they fought the Russians. You know what I mean? But those those that mentality of like in the 70s, the CIA gave them. That's exactly why Americans blow legs off, right? Because they're like, oh, I'm fighting farmers. You don't think oh, you don't think farmers could be scientists? Okay. No, exactly. Sure. You don't think they can be archived?
SPEAKER_00People work extremely hard all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. They literally, and that's the beauty of that why that screen is showing the IVR, yeah, right, is because and and this is a true thing they tell you when you're in that space of like your enemy is training while you're sleeping. That's like the gayest version of like, oh, keep doing your push-ups. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the truth of it is when we're over there, they truly are in the sense of like they know daytime operations are us, they know nighttime operations are the scary guys, the seals and the yeah, the the green-eyed monsters, right? Yeah, so they know that in the nighttime, if there's no green-eyed monsters, it is true, they're digging fucking bombs. We used to watch them all night long. And and you can't we're again, we're not the same as them, right? So we're watching them over this over the screen, but they're two clicks out. Yeah, they are digging up bombs and they're gonna put it right there and they're gonna hope. Yeah, even if you see it tonight on your camera, you are you gonna go tell everybody so that when they walk on this path, yeah. Someone's not gonna know it is very true to say they absolutely are are are constantly fighting because when I was dude, I was sleeping when I was over there. I'd be on posts sometimes. Yeah, I had friends who worked out. Tell you right now, they weren't fucking working out.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. So it's game time.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is, it has to be a representation to show that because and that IED is a beautiful again. It's it sucks that it's a true part of their story, but even if it wasn't, it's so beautifully inserted right there because that is the truest part of the war. Is if you also think about it, of like this whole point of it was Kazovaking from a grenade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yep, they're pulling out the the assertion team from an observation post from a grenade. And it was just like a like a hand injury or something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02And he was too shook up to stay fighting, super good decision to pull him. But then it turns into, oh, you didn't also plan to get hit by an IED.
SPEAKER_03We we go back to the the the terrifying unknown, and it is pretty awesome that Alex Scarlin's been working with that so much in his film career, and then he goes, Well, obviously, if we do modern warfare, the unknown of an IED, you know, exactly where it is, exactly, what it's made of, how big it is. And I'm glad you talked a little bit because yeah, Civil War comes out, or it'll already be out when this is out, and so you haven't heard it. But we did talk about the Bugaloo boys, and we did talk a little bit about that, and the point that I was making with that is that seems scary to me because we as the audience we're the journalists, they're with what I would view is the bad guys.
SPEAKER_02The bugaloo boys aren't the good guys if you know who they are in today's world, but that's who the journalists are with, as the journalists are gonna do.
SPEAKER_03But that's what I'm saying, is like that's how when shit comes bad here in America, it won't be clean-cut good versus bad sides. Like it just won't, and it'll never be that way. And I'm glad that movie kept it purposely confusing, where we're in good hands with them, but they're doing war crimes for completely different reasons than you. And the dude in camis is offloading a truck of bodies. Exactly. Exactly, yeah. So there I'm I'm glad you touched on it because yeah, we do talk about that when we get into civil wars. Like I know that he's scary and confusing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know it sticks out with the well, what kind of American art dude, gorgeous, gorge, dude, yeah, pump it. That's the only sad part about warfare being a true moment representation instead of like something as beautiful as Ek Machina because like I love word, I love the wordplay, and I love when a character just defines a feeling, yeah. And that's one of those. Well, what kind of American are you? Excuse me, sir, what level fucking movie are we watching right now? Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that goes hard. That's so good. That goes hard, right? And and and Machina's the dread is too, but like I I that connection point, it can't happen in warfare, yeah. But I I super super appreciate it. Yeah, I have super, I love that.
SPEAKER_03Seeing Alex Harlan stripped down to just whatever mechanical parts he did for this film and it to still be as effective as it is. I'm like this is this is a very unique movie in his his filmography because of what he's talking about and how but it it does feel like everything's leading up to him being able to strip it all out. Oh yeah for sure like it it's not high concept it's the opposite of high concept. Um no yeah that the legitimately thank you for coming on I really do appreciate it. Thanks for talking to us about uh war.
SPEAKER_00And yeah I'm glad you we're we're hopefully you don't have a mental breakdown after this I mean making you revisit this. I love it.
SPEAKER_02I mean like I'm old enough that like it's I talk about this not in the same sense but I bring this up to the boys all the time. Dude Sage just asked me the other day we were in the car and Sage goes what do you want to be when you grow up nice yeah yeah I was like brother I've already I already did it yeah yeah and I was like I've already done what I've I lived my life man yeah I was like I now live for you I said you don't have to worry what dad wanted to be when he grew up he already did yeah yeah and now like in if the Lord you love puts people on this earth for a purpose I don't know who said it recently in what movie and I know it wasn't warfare but like I have a purpose it's to decimate the enemy and it's and it's not because I'm I'm jocko willing you know what I mean like it's it's not that it's just it's a case of like this is like I am the hand of of thy lord and I didn't choose it but there's thousands of them you take claims calls for car insurance now and you have like a kid beaten off into gym socks in your house and you're still walking around like I am the hand no weapon formed against me shall prosper.
SPEAKER_03And it's like you're making hamburger helper while saying this at your house. I get it.
SPEAKER_02But dude I'm telling you the the crazy part is there are thousands of us. And this is the this is the joke I used to make with you about being a dad right is just because you're not a a true you you know I mean you don't have a human son.
SPEAKER_05Me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah yeah but like we've always talked about parenting aspects and like theories yeah you're not fucking off. Yeah you're not and you're not off and you don't become invalid because you don't have kids. It's the same thing. There are dudes right now who are training every day who have never been in a gunfight but I fully believe when push comes to shove they will pick up and they will pick they will choose and so you're saying you're a warrior without a war today and I'm a daddy without a kid. Absolutely I can and don't mistake the my ability to recognize this as like a call to arms that that's the stupid that's the cute part about this. Against who Sean That's even better right because point him in a direction any side well you gotta point a weapon any side you think I would fall to kind of deal but like think about it like this is like just like dad I'm going to pass most likely I'm gonna pass this earth and not fight another war. Hopefully yes and that's what I love about dad and I I feel bad that I've if I've ever if I've ever made yeah dad feel that way because he is he has the natural instinct of when the fight comes to his door yeah he will fight oh yeah and well he's fucked people up and it's just not in a war yeah yeah exactly in his world he will leave this living earth not fighting the great war yeah yeah he will right but you need those humans to exist and honestly you need those humans to empathize with your your side because the the truth the sad part what side is that Sean just kidding because the sad part about civil war is like you said is how like you don't feel in that movie not to get off of it like you don't feel like you can I clearly identify yeah the side that is with the journalistic mindset. You don't feel it there are humans that are walking the per the earth with us that are very capable and they're not in the political sphere right they're not the Hawaiian shirt wearers so like you don't you need to they everyone needs to keep fighting their fight you need to keep fighting your fight with words and whatever you need to choose dude you need to however you weaponize your battle you need to do that.
SPEAKER_03So Alex Garlin does warfare early 2025 okay war movie anti-war movie war is hell all of that I think also in 2025 he starts talking about honor nostalgia nationalism yeah and also this idea of a just war and who's honorable in these moments just because you fight does that make you a good person if you're fighting for the right reasons this and that um I would love to make the joke that the next film Alex Harwin does is 28 years later and you're the little boy but after you gave that very uh uncomfortable in Nick's house diatribe you're the alpha and me and Nick are sitting here being Aaron Taylor Johnson yeah like I th I think I'm honorable I think I'm a good guy even though maybe I'm not because I think I'm doing it for God and country and for flag I think he talks about so much of this and it's not a war movie it's a zombie movie. Yeah I'm super cash 28 days later but we're still going to talk about the psyche of war and soldiers what they do it for why and I think as a Brit he's gonna start reckoning with the British imperialism and the British nationalism and how that affects these stories for him I'm really fascinated. And he's back with Danny Boyle.
SPEAKER_00And he's just writing he's not directing yeah yeah it's gonna be super fascinating to revisit that having come off of warfare. Yeah I am excited. Me too yes thank you so much for coming on Sean thank you for putting up with us and thank you for telling William that he's basically a soldier but just with words. Right?
SPEAKER_02He needs to keep it up and a dad he's a soldier and a dad yeah exactly the two things you've without each you've always wanted you are those things wandering about anything I can give you is being straight well yeah it's so close I just can't give it to you it's not pass or fail. Yeah like right in the line right in the line dude I mean again I'm I'm not as smart as your other friends but like if I I don't mind yeah like that is a lot of it is like the the cool part is a lot of dudes like me don't get saved. Yeah like a lot of them don't get someone who's willing to break dude you know yeah uh seven eight years ago I wouldn't I wouldn't be the kind of human that could correctly come and do something not because of my brain and the memories and the and the sadness but because of my mindset was too fucking dumb. I would yeah I was too close to a Hawaiian shirt guy yeah to be able to so like the the the goal should be not saved by Christ but rationality and yeah yeah the goal should be to continue to to pass the the good the good lord's word in that sense which is rationality yeah because honestly I mean like it it allowed me to come to this space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah you know I mean and we we talked about this is like yeah the the joke is is did we bring you on to talk about PTSD that's not all the way true but like no yeah we would love to have you on for just like a movie that's not anything about war or or war again he loves it I literally I do like it it's sad because pin red line it is I just yeah yeah that'd be great or even Hurtlocker again I'm not gonna I don't know if we do Catherine but of course yes we'd love to have you on it's always fun having you in the room thank you for making time out of your busy weekend with us I think this worked really well it flowed well and I'm glad you were here thank you very much for coming on yeah thank you so much and yeah we'll be back next week with 28 years later written by Alex Garland directed by Danny Boyle never seen it you should watch it as I've I've only seen the the 28 days right the the original both of these maybe I'll watch it to kind of keep it the next two logos. The next two are on Netflix both written by Alex Garland yeah the next two okay yeah that's good love you guys love you too love you bye