I'm Your Buddy
A film and TV podcast hosted by best friends, Nick and William. Join us weekly as we watch imperfect but excellent works and discuss storytelling, friendship, and, in our current season, the film and tv scripts of Alex Garland!
I'm Your Buddy
Episode 217: They Know We Do Break The Rule
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This week, we watch Episode Four of Alex Garland's series Devs (2020) and discuss the series midpoint, the multiverse, and the show's weakest plot mechanism so far.
Hello and welcome to season 10 of I'm Your Buddy with Nick and William, the podcast where two best friends are watching and discussing the filmography of writer, director Alex Garland. I'm Nick who loves Alex Garland.
SPEAKER_04And I'm William who also loves Alex Garland. And today we're gonna talk about episode four.
SPEAKER_02And yes, no titles, just episode four. Yep. Keep it simple. Halfway through the eight episodes of Devs, how is it going, William? Compared to last week, we had a pretty dark episode. No, I don't know what you're talking about. It's fine. But I hope you're doing well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, last week was yeah, I mean I don't know. I'm fine. I'm good. I don't know how to answer because I don't want to like rehash everything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04But um, I mean the the I'm okay, but if I'm being honest, the the other part of the okay is like there's the nothing's different. Like life is the exact same. Sure. Everything's the exact same, so there's not uh change. I'm just managing, I guess, better. Yeah, like it's not affecting me as much today, but it's still it's just an up and down thing. Sure. You know, I've I've had more uh therapy in between now, and I'm back to I won't cancel because every once in a while, if like work got in the way, I'd be like, Oh, we can take the week off. That's okay. I've done that a few times. I was like, well, we won't do that anymore. We'll just make sure I reschedule another day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then we're discussing other things. Maybe more, maybe um, what is it, a psychiatrist for medication? Gotcha. There's also um like outpatient type services that she's worked with other companies before, if we need to do things like that. Sure. So there's uh there's other there's other options, there's more resources and uh what have you. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's well, and you can get medication, I believe, through primary care doctors as well. I don't know if that's what she said. I don't not sure if you have one of those. You might even be able to get some at urgent care. I don't know, actually. That's I don't know either.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um she said primary can, but I've always been hesitant. And she's not a big like uh push, like it's a it's a tool, it's a resource, it's uh it's a part of this or could be, but she's not always like, oh, absolutely, let's get going. Let's hurry, hurry, hurry. So she's uh respectful to the the reservation of it, and that's why she's like, Well, maybe you should go because you'll have more visits with that person, they'll you know, they'll keep an eye on how it's working, they can help you adjust if it's the wrong one or dosage, and oh yeah, she's like, it doesn't work all the way that way if you do primary care, yeah. So the this might be the better way to do it. It's more of a self-thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You have to assess it yourself, exactly.
SPEAKER_04So we're uh it's all uh of a discussion. Yeah, it was funny. You have to do not have to, part of this was uh doing a uh quote unquote action plan. And some of the questions are what can you do to help get yourself out, or what do you do that gets you out, or what do you do that gets you there, you know, to be aware. And then it's like, well, who can you go to for help? And I just kept joking. I was like, some of these questions aren't helping. I was like, some of and I made the joke uh like the the American office. There's that episode where Michael Scott and Dwight were arguing and they're not friends for the day, and they're doing their emergency contacts, and Dwight's like erase my original, which was Michael, and he goes, just put the hospital. He's like, That's it. Just I don't know. Don't call my parents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, yeah, Jesus. But yeah, it's I mean, you know, it's it's just up and down. Yeah. So we're here, we're doing it. To quote another show, rest development. We're here, we're queer, and now we're over there. No, no.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well uh we're glad you're here. Yeah, and yeah, primary care can be a challenge. I literally flashing back to getting on my anti-anxiety medication for my primary care doctor. And this was you know, some years ago, and and my primary care doctor at the time was kind of like a no nonsense, you know, woman in her fifties. Yeah. Just kind of straight shooter. I don't kind of like it, it had that East Coast mentality of just like no bullshit kind of thing. And then I genuinely remember going to her. And this was when I was in therapy. Or yeah, this is when I was in therapy, I think. Or I can't remember what came first, the medication or the therapy. I don't remember. But I was literally like telling her, like, yeah, I just um I feel horrific, just like you know, cripplingly depressed. And I'm like, Yeah, I just wanna, you know. And I, you know, it wasn't anything about the ideation, but I was I was just describing my current mental state and how fucking horrible I was feeling. And she's like, Really? Like she was disappointed.
SPEAKER_04Like, really? Is that bad?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04She's like, because I gotta like, I gotta go get another form now. Like that's four pages. Yeah, this one's two. Are you sure?
SPEAKER_02I'm like, yeah, really. Like and then of course she was like, Oh yeah, okay, well, we can do these options, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And was happy to do it. But just yeah, her initial reaction, I'm just like, this is not good bedside manner, bro.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she's like, I haven't had lunch yet. I didn't want to talk about this stuff yet. You're sad, really?
SPEAKER_01Ah, okay. All right, yeah, fuck it. You know you're white.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. You're a white man. You know you're a white male male, right?
SPEAKER_01In America.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, yeah, so yeah, psychiatrist might be a more understanding way to go.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I remember um to to get therapy. I went through an online thing, and you honestly you have to like kind of fish for it. So you you you throw an application out to a few because they won't get back to you or they don't have availability.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you have to fill out kind of sort of like an intake form of what is it, what happened, little family history, what trauma you got going on, like what's your spice? Yeah. And I had to do that a few times, and then it was the same time where I was like, Well, I should probably like, I've never really had a primary care physician, and I've never had like just a yearly checkup type of thing. Yeah, so I did that, and you have to do that for that. Oh, every time. Like a medical questionnaire, yeah. Yeah, a questionnaire. And every time you call, because I'm with press, every time you call for like, can I get a blood test? Can I get a piss test? Can I I'm I'm sick, I think I need antibiotics, whatever it is, just because you're at the hospital, they always ask you, like, are you depressed? Yeah, yeah. Are you those questions? Yeah, I'm kind of new to this. So every time they asked, I answered honestly. So there's like a lady on the the, you know, like a physician on the phone, like, are you depressed? I was like, Well, yeah. And then she goes, Are you do you ever think about hurting yourself? I'm like, Well, yeah. Well, have you ever, well, yeah. She's like, All right, we'll talk to you in a few minutes. I was like, wait, what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then I kept feeling uncomfortable, and it took me a while, maybe my third time. I was like, I think everybody lies because they don't care. So I just with the hospital, the primary, I was like, no, I'm fine. Just I need theraplu. What I always you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02What I always say is not any more than usual. Seriously, that's what I said. I was just literally there, whatever, before my shingles. And yeah, they're like, Oh, do you whatever? Are you depressed or anxious to put me down same as last time? Exactly. Not any more than usual. Which is there's a baseline. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, but I I I did clock the like I I'm sure everyone lies at this part. Why am I being honest? They don't care. It's they I mean, they're they're half a question away asking, Are you getting abused at home? And I'm like, I'm well, yeah. They ask, like, can you eat it? Because they ask, like, yeah, exactly. Was anybody hitting you? Or just I'm like, What?
SPEAKER_02What are we what like no, that's the problem.
SPEAKER_04I don't have anyone at to hurt me. No one's putting me in my place. Yeah, and everyone says, I need to be put in my place.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's yeah, everyone's yeah, I or I don't know. I don't know how normal people are. There are people who don't have anxieties, don't have depression. Yeah. I don't know who they are, but I know that they exist.
SPEAKER_04It is funny because uh it's it's such a therapy thing of you're no one wants you to use the word normal because there's a level of judgment to normal. And it's she my therapist always talks, she goes, Yeah, but what's normal? She goes, When you see someone that's happy all the time, that's not normal either. They're running from something.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_04And I was like, I get that. She goes, so uh normal, and that's where I think I said it last time. It was like normal's uh the uh a balance to you, yeah. Like what's your balance, what's your level of these things? Sure, not too high, not too low, whatever that is. That's that's everyone's normal is different. But we do talk of like, yeah, there are people that don't have anxiety, yeah. They get it like, oh no, I gotta take a test, you know. But they get that, they got pulled over, they're like, Oh, I'm so scared of I'm pulled over. Yeah, but like they don't have it like we do, no, or like uh and you know, I don't have panic attacks anymore, and you do. So it's like there yeah, there's always levels to this shit, and that's always a thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's I mean everyone's different, and it's just odd to think, because especially with the negative mindset kind of thinking that we gravitate towards it's like you don't, yeah, or at least I don't like oh yeah, there's people on the other end of that, you know, and everybody has problems and stuff like that, but but it's what and that's it's interesting how different people's brains work, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's the what causes the problems because I think when my theme was coming up, one of the the normal parts of the discussion was work was really stressed, yeah, stressful. And I was like, I guess that's a big part, and uh we were me and my therapist were joking. She goes, Yeah, but like, do you think it's cool or quote unquote normal to say work was so stressful you wanted to kill yourself? She goes, So I don't think it's that, buddy. She's like, There's clearly another thing going on if you're like, Yeah, I had a meeting, so I just want to, you know, kill myself. She's like, that's not how that works.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's I mean is a compounding stress. And that's what she said.
SPEAKER_04It was like, yeah, the the level of stress means you can't uh handle the other thing. Yeah, but we're not gonna sit here and say, yeah, it was because you were stressed. Yeah, she's like, that's not nah, man. That's not how that works. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's a pretty big leap.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I get that. I have two things I want to talk to you about before we get there. Sure. They might come up naturally, but we gotta check in with you. One, how are you doing? And two, what you got for me, baby?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm good. Nothing too crazy. Just in kind of a slow period for my work on the comic book, waiting for the colors to get done, which are you know about you know, two pages a week is what uh is averaging, which is good. And Mauricio is about to finish his pages. I think he was working on page 30 yesterday out of 32. So yeah, he's he's he's I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. So that's great. And yeah, I saw a couple of cool panels. Yeah, I saw the the protagonist where she has her helmet on, but the faceplate is is like receded. Looks so fucking cool. Like I yeah, I was really happy to see that. Uh, but I'm just waiting for like surveys from backers to come back.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So I'm kind of just in a you know, I'm not doing much on it, but now I'm starting to before hopping into like full-on planning for the part two campaign, where I'm starting to map out part three a little bit, which I think is we're not gonna call part three, but we're but that's one thing we're gonna discuss this weekend. But I'm planning out the rest of the series now, uh going back over my notes and pulling from you know stories I've written before and stuff like that. That's been fun at uh my lunch breaks, just you know, sniffing my own farts, rereading my own writing and being tickled. Like, oh man, this is cool. I know I'm gonna I'm gonna reuse this. But that's basically what I'm doing is going and and no, I'm I'm definitely not thinking that there are moments where I'm like, oh, this is such a cool sequence or something like that, or or like an emotional beat that I'm like, okay, cool, let's repurpose this, move this here. But in terms of uh yeah, today I was reading one section, which is like halfway through this script, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm not really buying this part, but you know, it's just how it goes. But it's been fun trying to get an overall picture, uh, hopefully in these next few weeks, because I don't have to do a lot of merch stuff or anything like that until more towards the summer, like June. So maybe this next month I'm gonna try to map out how many issues will be left for the entire story and stuff like that. Probably be 10 to 12. So it'll be fun getting into more of back into writing mode a little bit. And yeah, just a lot of yard work at the house. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Just uh what's your big house project right now for this summer?
SPEAKER_02Uh it's going to be Leo's new playset that uh he's getting for his birthday. Which, yeah, don't listen to this, Leo. Leo. Uh no spoilers for Leo's play. Year months. But yeah, we got him like a swing set and a slide. Oh, like one of the big playground things. Yeah, like a playground thing. So we gotta prep the backyard for that. We gotta cut down a bush and we're gonna get a ton of wood chips, hopefully delivered actually for like free. There's a free like wood chips service where arborists dump their wood chips in your lawn and all this stuff. So we're gonna try to do that.
SPEAKER_01So that's the big thing before June.
SPEAKER_02And yeah, just weed maintenance, bullshit, watering trees, same kind of stuff. But um, yeah, I'm just getting back into working out, you know, post shingles and stuff. It's been good. I've been working out, trying to work out every other day, doing kettlebells and doing running, so and everything's slowly improving, so it's good. Not back to where I was before, but getting there. So how heavy is your kettlebell? Um, it's 12 kilograms. Shut up. It is America. Which is 20 something pounds. I don't know how many pounds it is. Why would you buy kilograms? What's wrong with you? That's what they sell kettlebells in, and it's adjustable. So right now I'm doing 12 kilograms, some exercises that, and then some 14.
SPEAKER_04Two stone?
SPEAKER_02You fucking no idea. I don't know. I don't make the rules. Take it up with the company that built it. Um, I don't fucking know.
SPEAKER_04Because I only have dumbbells and one kettlebell. I have 20-pound dumbbells. Okay. And then I have a 30-pound kettlebell. Nice. And I have a pull-up part. So that's probably And that's all I do.
SPEAKER_02That's probably 16 kilograms or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I don't know either.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm dumb.
SPEAKER_02But I just have the single kettlebell and it's adjustable so I can add weight. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because the the 20, I I need uh I'm over it. Oh strong boy. Just so ripped. No, no, I'm not.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Skinny loser. Nick, I'm a dumb skinny loser with stupid opinions.
SPEAKER_02That's what you're that's what your brain's trying to tell you, William, but you're not. Now you're a jacked grown man. Uh but uh I hate that. But no, I'm I'm uh whatever, you know. I'm I'm good. Minus the fact that my best friend is in the dumps and uh suffering in the way that you are. It's okay. Which is not good. I love you, man. I love you too.
SPEAKER_01We're here, we're queer.
SPEAKER_02We're gonna be over there. But yes, and then I was gonna be mean to you, right? This episode. Yeah, I gotta hear this to you. I've been thinking about this all week.
SPEAKER_04No, and actually, I've been thinking about you all week, with I I literally have no idea what this is about. I've been thinking about Leo all week. That's good because he's cool and he's in such a funny uh phase right now where he's like, No, I gotta show you something. And then go to his room and he's got nothing to show me. Yeah, he just wants to hang out. Yeah, he's like, Look at this, and then I'm like, Yeah, cool, what's it do? And then he just like does a weird dance and goes.
SPEAKER_02Just bullshitting, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I'm like, Yeah, you're cool, man.
SPEAKER_02Just to get attention, yeah. But yeah, he's learning, he knows, yeah. He's learning all the tactics. But no, I I've today it literally just snapped in my head. I was listening to some music. Uh and uh some Nora Jones. No, no, I you would actually be you'd be happy. I listened to the the Hell Can Wait EP by uh your boy Vince Staples because he came out with a new song that you sent me the other day. Very cool, great music video. I want to talk about it. Um but yeah, I like that LP or EP, sorry. EP.
SPEAKER_04I listened to the EP It's like six songs or something.
SPEAKER_02Uh seven, yeah. Yeah, I was like, oh okay, this is cool. Yeah, I dig because I didn't I don't think I've ever listened to a full one of his albums. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04Just the last one that came out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Dark Time. Yes, yes, yes. So I was like, oh, this is cool. Maybe I can start listening to some of these. And I yeah, I liked it. There's interesting production and and some functions.
SPEAKER_04It's aggressive, simple beats. And yeah, he's he he raps in a way that like you hear everything he's saying. Yeah. He's not like a fast, not a double time.
SPEAKER_02It's yeah, the rap itself isn't stylized. Yeah. And yeah, some of the the lyrics are fun, and you know, it's it's the storytelling type that is that I can actually lock into and not find kind of great. You're in that car with him, yeah, yeah. In 6500. Yeah, 6500. And the uh the screen door one where he's you know, whatever, selling shit out of his house or whatever. Dad's tweaking or whatever. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that was cool. Cool music stuff. There's and that's one thing that's important, is like I I am a hooks person a little bit, which raps harder for hooks if it's like the pure lyricist guy. Yeah, right. It's harder to get like a he's not bad though, right? No, but yeah, it's good. Like, yeah, he he makes an interesting choice with the whatever chorus he's saying, at least on that EP. And it's like, oh cool, this is fun. You know, he chooses to repeat it for a reason and stuff like that. And the music's cool. Every song kind of sounds a little bit different, and they mix up the drum uh beats a lot. So yeah, that that was a good that was a good listen. Why I I think I literally just saw like Apple Music was recommending his new song. Yeah. Uh on the new, because I'll go to the new section every day and look and see if it's a good one.
SPEAKER_04Blackberry Marmalade.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I just went to his and then I was like, all right, fuck it, let's just go to the oldest and threw it on because I really didn't want to listen to podcasts the past couple days. I just finished listening to uh this book on about Apple's first 50 years. I know Q Boozu, evil company. Uh, but because they the company turned 50. Oh, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_04And um didn't Tim step down? Oh, is that really? Yeah, he's going to go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02They named his successor, I can't remember his name, John Terminus or something like that. Terminus. John Connor, the Terminator, is taking over Apple. Uh first AI, first cyborg CEO. The Terminal. It's actually it's actually that Chris Pratt movie's taking over. Terminal list. Uh CEO list John Terminal List. CEO is Apple. But I just listened to that audiobook, which is very fascinating because I love that kind of stuff. And I love that company. Wait, what was the audiobook about? It's their first 50 years. Oh, okay. So it's I basically just the history of the company for the first 50 years. And what's it called? Apple the first 50 years. Um I listened to the audiobook. It was really nice. And then I was like, I just don't, and there's no one who's been like I've been really wanting to listen to in terms of podcast interviews, in terms of the podcasts that you know that we overlap on until earlier I saw Louise on um Jim Norton. Jim Norton, which I started that, which is great. So I was like, the I since I finished the audiobook a couple days ago, I'm like, fuck, I don't want to listen to any podcasts. I've been the same.
SPEAKER_04So I just on podcasts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I threw on some music, wanted to choose a couple things, and I had already listened to the new metric a couple times, which is good. Yeah, I like it. What's it called? Uh I can't remember.
SPEAKER_00Almost not be that good.
SPEAKER_02She's wearing the shirt of the title. I can't remember. But it's yeah, it's good. I like it. So I'd already listened to that a couple times, you know, ran through some bad bunny again for the hundredth time. Nice. And then I was like, yeah, let me listen to something else. So then I listened to the Vince Staples. But listening to the Vince Staples and thinking about, okay, I gotta come up with this, you know, stuff I gotta yell at William about, which I'm not gonna. I literally have to do that. I gotta hear it. Come on. But no, the thing that I wanted to talk about is I'm a bunk ass bitch. No, the it clicked in my head of like the thing that you have wrong, and I know that half you know, you're you're fucking with me, but yeah, the thing in terms of I hope you know that. Yeah, of course. Okay, yeah, you don't call a person Drake and not expect them to be insulted.
SPEAKER_04I let that go. Okay, that's the part that yeah, you're always off with Just because hotline bling is catchy is not my fault, boy. You're always off with me because this is what sucks. That was The part I was actually serious about. I re-listened to a few of his albums, and I was like, You would like Drake way more than J. Cole. You might like Drake a little bit more than Kendrick because this is a guy that cares about like different sounds, different cultural. Like he's gonna do dance hall, he's gonna do Caribbean, he's gonna have Rihanna sing the hook. He cares about a hook, he has pop songs, he has sad songs, like he's gonna give you that. And then I was like, Oh yeah, but you hate the fact that Drake's the guy. Yeah, he sucks. The guy that does like 47 songs for an album, and you're gonna look at this and go, There's three good songs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I was like, he's not your guy either, but of the three, I was like, he's the pop one. No, he's not the artist, uh Mr. Morale or Blackberry, you know.
SPEAKER_02But and and this times this ties into it too, actually. So, and that specifically, Drake, it doesn't matter what genre he's in, yeah, doesn't matter that he does he has more variety of production and gets into the pop hooks, which I enjoy, but the dude sucks. He's fucking less he's awful, he's corny as hell, and I don't give a and that's fucking dumb. Yeah, and even though you know I'm not a diehard Kendrick fan, and I'm not gonna listen to his albums at all times, yeah. Like I respect the hell out of his artistry, and he's a fucking cool guy. Yeah, and the same goes with J. Cole. I I don't it's it's just funny to call him corny because it's the Mike Sanchez making fun of you of it all. He rides a bike, like he's a corny guy, and like I thought it was I wasn't a huge fan of the production that I heard, but like I don't really double disc. I don't really have that much of an opinion about him, but I don't but I respect him because he actually cares about the artistry, yeah. You know what I mean? And and and if you say that he's very good at rapping and you know, like as a lyricist, he's one of the best, I believe you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_02I have to take my word for it. Yeah, I have no reason not to. But that ties into you talking about the you know, making fun of the Arctic Monkeys lounge records, yes, and you were talking about Which is a joke. No, of course, but even saying, like, oh, you like a lounge record. I remember you said that. Yes, and like it didn't click because you do, and it's funny. I know, but it didn't click and it ties into this Drake thing. It doesn't matter that it's I don't like the genre of lounge music. Yeah, it's an Arctic Monkeys record, so that's why I like it. Because I love the Arctic Monkeys.
SPEAKER_04That was my whole point, is I can't come to you with a band you've never heard of and say you gotta listen to this album. You go, what is it? And I say, It's a sci-fi lounge album. You go, that sounds right up my alley. That wouldn't have worked, it only worked because you're bought in and invested with Alex Turner's band. Sure. And you're like, Well, if they're gonna do a weird thing, I'm gonna listen to a weird thing by a guy that I'm on board. That was my whole joke, is like, I can't come to you and go, Nick, listen to this fish vagina album and it's a it's a lounge record. And you're like, Yeah, I'll do that. You wouldn't. You only did it because it's them. That's uh that and that's why I'm like, that's why it's a joke, is it's so funny to say you'll listen to a lounge album before a rap album of a guy that I say I really like. You're like, nah, I'll take a risk on a line. Just the fact that it's lounge is really, really funny.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's because I don't have another reference point to of a genre that you've listened to that doesn't make sense. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02It makes no sense, it's so weird. I mean, I think lounge makes more sense than me listening to a fucking reggaeton Bad Bunny record a hundred times. But as if you think of corny white people lounge music.
SPEAKER_04I get that, but it I've I've listened to both albums, and I'm like, I mean, I I stand by. Anybody can put that Bad Bunny album on, and you're like, this is just fun. Yeah, this is cool, upbeat, mostly energetic. Yeah. And then you go to like a lounge album, which uh, you know, I made all those jokes. I ran it back, I listened when it came out, and then I listened to it a little bit ago. Yeah, there's good grooves. It's it I'm not sure. It's not what you want from that. It's like a piece of shit album. Yeah, it's not bad. It's it's not what you want from that band. And I never think to like I'm in the mood to re-listen to whatever the hell they're doing there. That's not my thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_04But yes, it is very funny to me. Sure. It's hilarious.
SPEAKER_02But I do listen to the rap that you recommend to me. You just don't like that I don't like it. And that's the difference. No, I don't mind. I I keep I don't believe you. I don't, I mean, I'm sure to a point, right? We're adults, whatever, you can't you can't like everything that your friends like. We're we're we're we've gotten enough, we've aged enough into that where it's completely fine, you know. Where in as when you're a teenager and when you're in your 20s, it's it's like much more like it it means something. And if it's like, oh, if they don't like the my music, then they're rejecting me, which isn't true. No, and I mean in high school I definitely don't feel that I would for sure. In the social tier, it feels like that in high school for sure, but as adults, it's like yeah, whatever, it's just not my thing or whatever. Yeah, but I do think there's something about me like or disliking something that you like, and not even it I don't think it's it's not some kind of grudge or something like that, but there's something about me not getting through that J. Cole record that bugs you because I'll say yeah, my impression of those three songs, which is that's just how I feel about those three songs, yeah, or whatever. And it was actually like seven songs.
SPEAKER_04It was four or five.
SPEAKER_02But but still in your head, you're just like, but you do like I know it kind of bugs you, that's what I'm saying. And so, but I'm just like, no, I don't want to listen to Jake.
SPEAKER_04And you're like that it if there's a part that bugs me, it is the uh, and that's why I use the lounge album as a joke of like you can get through something weird and difficult. Sure. If you want to, you could choose to get through something. You've listened to things, you've played Death Stranding, you you know, you've watched movies or TV shows that I'm like, you're getting through this stuff, and you can't and you're like, I'm not getting through that part. Okay, but if me and you sit here, as simple as I'm asking you to listen to a double disc lyrical rap album with not catchy hooks, yeah, and it's about the lyrics, and you go, you know, that's one of my least favorite parts of like music. And I'm like, Yeah, no, you're fine. It would it would probably hurt me or bug me more if you refuse to listen to Vince Staples because I go, Nick, I think you would like it. It's more in line with something that you'll connect with. And if you were to just blindly go, I wanna, that would bug me because I'm like, I am trying to pick something that I think is in your range. If you were to be dismissive over that, that would bug me. Or when we have these talks and the math doesn't line up where I'm like, what I don't get what you're saying, and it feels like there's another part of it, and I don't get it, and I get frustrated over not getting it.
SPEAKER_02You take it as disrespect.
SPEAKER_04I don't take it personally, I just get frustrated over the fact that something in the universe doesn't make sense. Yeah, it's not a personal, I'm mad at you, I'm mad at the my brain can't square it. Sure. And I'm like, God fucking damn it, that makes no sense. But it's it's never personal, especially when it comes to stuff like this. It is funny. I do think it's very funny, but um, I mean, again, like you you listen to an album and then you're like, I don't know, it's fine. I'm like, what? That was amazing. You're like, it was fine. Yeah, that's the thing that that doesn't bug me, and I never take that personally.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's it's it's a again, it's just a difference between the way that we listen, because genuinely, like so listening to listening to rap records that I have not heard before takes a lot of effort in terms of focus, right? Yeah, so the first song on that Vince Staples EP, I have to lock in because immediately as a musician, I grew up starting in middle school playing music, and we talked we've talked about how I only wrote lyrics because I had to, and I was kind of in a band and you need it. Yeah, and like because you're not post-rock. Yeah, so I'm just music first. So my ear always defaults to that. So even when I'm listening to that opening track on on the Vince Staples EP, I'm like, okay, shit, I gotta try to lock in. Pay attention to the music, yes, but also try to listen to what he's saying. Because that's always secondary when I'm first listening to an album. Well, I don't think that's a oh you keep going. No, but it that's just how my ear works. So in terms of the the best the best way I can describe it is like there's passive and active listening. No, well, no, there's there's like a tier list in terms of the way that my brain will interpret music. So generally the the first thing I'm gonna listen to is like guitar and drums, and then the bass is gonna come in, that's gonna be second or third, and then it's gonna be vocals after that. And or I mean in terms of instrumentation, but like melody is always first, and when it comes to singing, melody is more important to my brain and gets first dibs on my attention uh versus lyrics, and of course, after subsequent listens, it's all of it. I hear everything and I lock in on the lyrics, and I'm like, oh, I think that's clever. And I'm always hearing them, but I'm not necessarily processing them up front actively on a first listen.
SPEAKER_04So with rap, I have to think that's wrong at all.
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think it's wrong either. I'm just saying that's how it works. So I really have to lock in and focus when it comes to rap records, where like I literally had to change my mind and be like, oh yeah, shit. Lock listen to his vocals first and just see if you're enjoying the beat or see if you're enjoying some of the choices of the production, but listen to the lyrics first, you know.
SPEAKER_04I listen to a rap podcast, and a lot of the people on that podcast are in the industry producers, rappers, engineers, like it's uh people of the music world, and they have had multiple discussions of new albums out. They say how they listen to it. Certain people are like, I gotta hear it in the car. Yeah, there is a guy on there, he's in the industry, and he says the way he listens to a new album, he puts it on and does chores around the house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And he's not listening to lyrics, he's not listening to content, he's not listening to what's the song about. He it's just there and he's almost passively taking it in, and something's gonna catch him and go, Oh shit, I need to hear that again. Yeah, yeah. Or ooh, I'm loving this, whatever. Yeah, doesn't matter if it's the lyrics or the music or just uh a mix of it. Yeah, it's just whatever naturally grabs him, grabs him. And that's his first pass-through.
SPEAKER_00That's cool.
SPEAKER_04So, like, I don't think there's any wrong way. And I I know because we're doing it for the podcast and it's something to discuss, we do have to treat it a bit more like homework. When it's like, well, we're gonna talk about it and you're gonna have to have an opinion, and I'm probably gonna ask you follow-up questions. But like, even with rap when like lyrics are front, I don't think it's crazy if you said you listened to the Vince Stables go, I don't know what he said, but I mean it's heavy, distorted bass riffs. Yeah, it just sounds cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. That's not crazy to me. And where and that's where back to the J. Cole of it all, that's where he lost me in terms, and and it's it's probably similar to the Bone Thugs and Harmony thing. Because when you go that much lyric, you're like, dude, I well, I have to pay seriously, like, yeah, because I was listening to J. Cole when I was running, and I'm like, okay, this is a great lyricist and all this shit. And I'm fucking huffing and puffing out there, and my brain is like, okay, just really fucking listen to this, what this guy's saying, and I'm like, that is taking up a lot of fucking energy right now, and I am out of shape, and this is difficult, and there's not enough fucking hook to like put a pep in my step, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because now it's homework and it's not even fun music. Well, I mean, it's not even fun. Yeah, and that goes back to the bad bunny thing, goes back to both of my examples I keep using. Sure. The bad bunny, no one cares what he says. And if you look up those lyrics, he's literally just talking about eating pussy. Yeah, most of the time. Every song is like, I love eating pussy.
SPEAKER_02He does talk about Pokemon as well. And the last song in that record, he says Lugia, ho-ho, and then in Spanish he says, I'm legendary. It's fucking brilliant.
SPEAKER_04But it's the thing of like, it's just fun sounding music. Oh, it's got a great rhythm.
SPEAKER_02Which I I feel racist saying that as a white person saying reggaeton is a great rhythm.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, it is it is funny that your white cracker ass is uh just learning what a clave is or whatever. Like you're like I don't know. The way they do that 3-2 overlap. Then the inverse is the fucking lounge album.
SPEAKER_02But that has the riffs are so fucking good, the grooves are so fucking good, and that's the instrumentation is amazing.
SPEAKER_04If it grabs you, whether it's energetic or boring, you're like, it just grabs me. Neither of those feel and I didn't even mean as it's like boring as fucking stupid as hell. But once it feels like homework, there's only so far the entertainment is gonna go. And I totally get that, and that's where I'm like, don't listen to that album. Don't don't listen to it. Stop. No, I'm not gonna like if it's been this much effort, I'm like, you literally for for you to go, it's fine, and me go, yeah. No, and it's not bad. And that's the conversation because we're not doing a deep dive on the fall-off of like, all right, now this track. No, this so it's like, no, you don't have to. If it's not fun.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I there, I I promise you, there have been no plans in my head of I'm gonna go back and listen to this J. Cole. Thank you. That makes me happy. It's just been a topic of discussion. It's just like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're not done talking about a thing I'm fixated on. I'm still listening to that album. Uh I have switched, and this is the other thing I want to talk to you about. Is I've been listening to a ton, which I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should Elliot. Take a brat. I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Is Frank Ocean. And you said you listened to Blonde.
SPEAKER_02I did listen to Blonde.
SPEAKER_04Which I don't remember. Did you hear it when it first came out?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_04I heard 90s maybe.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I recognized the chorus when that song came on. Okay. But I heard his first record, Chanel Orange.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Which I was like, I don't remember actually enjoying as much as I like it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you didn't like it that much. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Blonde's cool, yeah. It's fun. Yeah, I like that he mixes up. I like the singing. And yeah, fun music production choices.
SPEAKER_04Because kind of every song changes. Yeah, like has a switch towards the end.
SPEAKER_02There's near a cappella songs. And yeah, I mean, it's yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then uh uh what's it called? Pretty things or something. I forget the name of the song. I don't look at the Pretty Little Wars. It was on the CW. Nope. But like it almost starts like walla sound, loud, abrasive, like it's kind of jarring. Yeah. And it ends with like a Charlie Brown like children chorus, and it's like melodic, yeah. Peaceful. Like there he the the songs always have a switch to them. I love that album. Do you know off top of your dome piece if anything stood out musically, where you're like that bit, that piece, that part, or that was there anything that stood out that the my biggest takeaway besides just enjoying the production was how much he played with his own voice and his vocalizations.
SPEAKER_02Where you hear that in rap, but I don't I hadn't heard it that much in this kind of more slower RB. And I like that he does that. Yeah, I took that away. I was like, Oh, it's fun. He's having a good time, he's not afraid to sound weird, which I which I like.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think I think he's only given us so few of projects, and he's very, you know, mysterious and recluse. He's he's he's our Brian Wilson. It's like a deeply emotional album that's not scared to be weird as hell. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and he hasn't done anything since. No.
SPEAKER_04And that was 2017 almost 10 years ago. He's just hanging out. Any minute now. Everyone's always like, yeah, no, any minute now, probably, but no one really knows. And then you heard another Andre 3000 verse. Yes. Solo reprise.
SPEAKER_01He's so good.
SPEAKER_04Isn't it?
SPEAKER_01He's so good. Does it hurt you?
SPEAKER_02And that was its own song, wasn't it? It's just him. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he's so fucking good. Speaking of Big Boy, yep, playing the Isletta amphitheater, probably. Yeah, I forgot with like 30 minutes with a few people, yeah. Mia and Kid Cuddy.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah. It breaks my heart that Andre's done that, and he's like, I don't know if I could do an album. I don't know if I have anything to say. Well, I get that. That makes me sad. I get that that he doesn't believe in himself enough to like go with it. I respect the hell out of anything he does, and I trust he knows the right answer, but just hearing that for two minutes, some of the best lyrics.
SPEAKER_02Dude, yeah, just the scheme that he's doing, yeah, it's so fucking good. Like for real. And on that kind of shit, I can fucking lock in and be like, when it's that creative, yeah, it's so fucking good. And all I honestly, all I think about now is that verse on that fucking uh scientists and engineers Killer Mike song, which I know I should not say this about a person called Killer Mike. That's Atlanta royalty. Be careful, tread lightly. But I think it needed another draft.
SPEAKER_04I I know exactly what you mean because he's going for the double times, so he's using the the words repeated, repeated. I get it. Um, but yeah, that's the like that Andre thing breaks breaks my heart. This is the other thing. Maybe he'll come back to it eventually.
SPEAKER_02Maybe he will.
SPEAKER_04I'm sure something's gonna, you know. He always has. He did uh Life of the Party with Kanye, which I don't know if you've heard that verse. Uh-uh. I could cry to that verse. It's insane that he's talking to his mom in heaven.
SPEAKER_02Oh, remember you said yeah, I have heard that.
SPEAKER_04It's nuts. But every time white guys talk about Eminem and they're like, he's the only one. I'm like, it just shows me you don't listen to other rappers. Because what Andre 3000 did in that two-minute Frank Ocean song, he does all the things people think Eminem's the only one doing. Yeah, like he's rhyming words that shouldn't rhyme, he's stretching words, it's through the accent, it's he rhymes onomonopia with words. Yeah. He's he'll break a word up mid-syllable to make it overlap.
SPEAKER_02I love that stuff.
SPEAKER_04Double time, like it's everything, and he's using solo, so low, like all of the he does all of it in two minutes.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_04And it's not just the I'm rhyming words that rhyme for the sake of rhyming. It there's a narrative, there's a story, there's a perspective. Like, it's crystallized in two minutes when people are like, No, MmM.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, You heard rap rap gods?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm like, you guys don't know what else is out there because Andre's been doing this literally since he started. Like this was the start of him being like, yeah, he's a fucking alien. And he's at this age still just like, yeah, I'm gonna come in and do this, and then I'm gonna dip out.
SPEAKER_02Is some of the old outcast stuff like that? I because I have I have He's he's always been this good.
SPEAKER_04I have no frame of reference for out. He's always been this good.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04It's it's uh, you know, it it he's comfortable being more experimental, but he's always been this good. And then when he jumps on other people's songs as a guest verse, like the the Rick Ross 16, it's like, well, it's Andre's song now. He's always been that guy, yeah. It's never not been that. Interesting, but yeah, it's just it's a two-minute song. He knows it all. I'm just like, God, damn it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's super cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, highly, highly enjoy that. Yeah, I'm glad you listened to that, and I'm glad you like it. I love that album. Uh, I should probably take a break. It is emotional. Yeah, probably shouldn't be listening to that so much. Yeah. And that came up, we were talking about like, well, what can you listen to? I was like, I know what I can't, I know what I shouldn't. So that is a thing. You brought up Elliot Smith. I'll say this. Maybe one example that I would say for personally in the ranking of one of the greatest, most perfect songs ever written that I wish I could write that exact is uh the closer for figure eight can't make a sound.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04I think that is the that's That's it. That's the song. And that's what I'm saying is listen to that. Like the guitar, when the drums, when it grows, when it builds, how it gets to where it gets. Like, that's the type of song if I could write music. You would want to that would be on my wall of like everything I do. I I want to strive for what he did with Can't Make a Sound. I think that's the perfect song. And I listened to that today, and I was like, I can't get over that. That's exactly what I wish I could accomplish. I'm in love with that song. Yeah, I'll get it. So fucking much. Absolutely. Everyone listen to Can't Make a Sound. It's the coolest fucking thing ever. I'm sick. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Sweet. Yeah, because I don't think I've ever listened to a full Elliott Smith record, I don't think.
SPEAKER_04Nah, you're fine.
SPEAKER_02Don't worry about it. Maybe we'll do a real downer season of I'm Your Buddy with Nick and William. Nah, but how many records does he have? Three or four?
SPEAKER_04No. What are you fucking high? Oh, I don't know. More than that. Maybe six? Okay. I don't know. Four's close to six. Three or four, six or seven. Okay, double. Sure. All right. I'm bad with numbers. I'm an idiot, Nick. I'm a dumb idiot. That's what you tell me when the mics are off.
SPEAKER_02Your other favorite rapper.
SPEAKER_04Damn it, Jimmy Fallon. Oh man. That made me cringe when Haley Williams is like, hey, I love this. I was like, stop. You're cool. Stop just chilling.
SPEAKER_02I didn't watch that. Yeah, I couldn't bring myself to.
SPEAKER_04Nick, can you bring yourself to say if you like or dislike this episode? Episode four.
SPEAKER_02I do like this episode. I don't. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, I don't love it. Because your girl gets it's thrown beat to the curb, beat kicked to the curb.
SPEAKER_04You mean him? Yes. Lyndon? Yes. The boy Lyndon? Yes. Played by the uh woman actress Kaylee Spenny.
SPEAKER_02Correct. But I knew that you would find it.
SPEAKER_04That meant nothing to me. That didn't cross any wires. That's not confusing at all.
SPEAKER_02Of course not. Yeah. I'm sure you didn't try to beat that away last night.
SPEAKER_04Nope. I don't know what you're talking about. Hey, you know what? Uh we we came from a weird world before the internet. So the amount of things that have shook one loose on accident. Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, who hasn't uh been home alone to the Grand Theft Auto Vice City load screens, and you're like, you know what? What happens, happens. Variety is the spice of life, my friend. Yep. Yeah. We've all seen a random Marie Claire or a Better Homes and Gardens, and it's like, that lady can get it. Yeah. That lady with uh that weird three-pronged hand rake thing in her hand. I'm like, she can get it. Yeah. She's no good. Those are the old bullshits.
SPEAKER_02That's that's what I'm saying. Yeah. Being a kid. Exactly. You didn't have anything. That's all you had in those early years for sure. But yeah, I I like where this episode ends. I like that we get to our midpoint of the series. And I wanted to point that out. You know, I I talk about structure all the time on this podcast. And midpoints. Everything's lost. Yep, exactly. Yeah. So you have to basically you have some kind of big disaster that happens in the middle, and your protagonist needs to redirect and scramble to try to come up with a new plan to reach their goal. So that's where we our protagonist Lily ends up, right? You know, we think she's doing the right thing, she's gotten away. She does quote unquote the right thing, which is call the cops, and she wants to save or she wants to protect her exhibit. Uh, and then what happens? Bomb, Kenton's there. But they take it. She didn't escape. She gets taken to an involunt or taken to an involuntary psych ward. And her ex-boyfriend uh gets the shit kicked out of by Kenton, who's very scary in this episode. Very intimidating. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like, oh yeah, yeah, that makes total sense.
SPEAKER_04Not because he's beating up Asians, but because he's intimidating and imposing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh just put that on his jacket.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I and and I love the introduction of the multiverse as we would.
SPEAKER_04Was teased. You're so excited for Doctor Doom. You love it. You're so excited.
SPEAKER_02Gambit's gonna come back. Yeah, you can't wait. I don't know, man. I just want to see a real trailer. But I like that we get to see why Forrest and look, we said this from the opening fucking image about what this show is about. It's about Forest and Amaya. Yep. But we get his actual fucking motivation. My Amaya. And exactly why he doesn't want the fucking multiverse. He wants to see his Amaya. Not one that has changed. Yeah, exactly. But I love him seeing the fucking image of her whole HD. Yeah. Exactly. And him fucking sobbing. I it's not fair.
SPEAKER_04I love that. It's not fair. Because he saw it, and it's like, I'm reacting, and I don't think that's that's mine. And it's not fair. This can do it to me. But the question is, does it matter? What does matter, Nicholas?
SPEAKER_02Well, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And it's hard to hard question to answer sometimes.
SPEAKER_02We find out that the thing that they have known about Lily is she's gonna die in four to eight hours.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, which they were watching.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Her crawling on the ground, don't know anything about it, about it, don't know the context, but we know that they know that that's supposedly going to happen. And that, yeah, they've been peeking into the future, which they've been hinting at the whole time. So yeah, and it's cool to hear the you know, we talk about the religious awe that that Garland likes to kind of impart into his science fiction stuff, and yeah, like hearing Jesus talk and then that nice inversion on the moment of you think Forrest is gonna be like this is fucking great, but he just gets pissed and he fucking fires. Uh she's out of here, he's out of here. Lyndon's gone. Yeah, Linden's gone. So I I like that that thing where if that was a Star Wars movie, people would be pissed and they would hate Ryan Johnson. But um, yeah, I I enjoy it. It's an uncomfortable episode in terms of like bad shit is happening to our quote unquote protagonist Lily. And yeah, it's kind of and oh I was watching it thinking like, oh great, the psychiatrist is is a malevolent fucker, and I'm like, this is not a good thing for William to be watching right now. Uh I'm not that fragile.
SPEAKER_04I mean I am, but for other reasons. Clearly, I am. Um I should stop saying I'm not.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. That's why I was like, oh shit. And then, yeah, then I I didn't, yeah, we'll we'll see what the next couple episodes bring.
SPEAKER_04But I was like, uh the psychiatry thing is the thing that bugs me the most out of this show so far. And I do like this episode, but I it's the one I like the least so far because it's the biggest well, it's a TV show. Yeah. That's not how therapy goes. It feels like it has to work for the sake of the plot, and it just feels wrong.
SPEAKER_02I agree with that.
SPEAKER_04The just the simple fact that is the scariest looking psychiatrist of all like, how do you not walk into there and go, that guy's gonna murder me? Yeah, he looks like a mobster. He looks like a Dick Tracy villain. How does she not sit down and go, Oh, you're in on it and you're gonna murder me? Yeah, yeah. So I was like, come on, that and just the way because it's an episode, and they have to do it in one session, one sit-down where they talk, and he goes, Yeah, you are crazy. I'm like, that's not none of this is how this actually plays out. Yeah, but they have to for the sake of the show. So I was like, I don't love it, and it just felt very we gotta get to the car.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I I agree with that. It feels television-y, yeah, it feels like uh a mechanism in the story. He looked like the bad guy from the Jim Carrey movie The Mask.
SPEAKER_04Well, it's from something else.
SPEAKER_01Like, what is this guy? Uh yeah, it looks like a bad guy. Yeah, I mean maybe it could be big-headed dude.
SPEAKER_04I gotta look at him. I hate it. Big rock head. I hate those guys. I think they have a super fat girthy cock. It bugs me. Yeah, like it when he has the mask on, probably. Yeah, like where it like it goes torpedo. Yeah, like the head smokes and the base.
SPEAKER_02It's like a pyramid, a cone.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it looks like a football player like ran on the field but put the wrong helmet on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the a junior varsity helmet on. That is highly disturbing.
SPEAKER_01We're talking about the guys who wear the mask from the mask. I don't know. We're talking about Tracy villains. I don't know. All of it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Everything. I gotta look up this guy. Because yeah, he looks very familiar. Ex Machina. He's Jay and X Machina. Maybe he's the pilot in ex Machina. That sounds right. That's what I can see that's maybe that's what it is. Jay Bearishell. Yes.
SPEAKER_01Can you imagine Jay Bearishell instead of Donald Gleason?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. But yes, I I can see that. This this is the first episode where like it feels like TV. For sake of play. I can see that. I could totally but I really like the intro with the fucking colors on their face, the really degree, and it's like, come on.
SPEAKER_04Red blue, red, blue, green, fuck you. Cool.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, love that.
SPEAKER_04And I I I again, it's all the dev stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm here. I don't know what you're talking about, but it's cool, and I enjoy not knowing. It's it's that thing. Like, I think that's what made Primer so cool. That sci-fi film, if I feel like everyone should have seen it, but if you didn't, it was like the time travel movie that I was like, I feel comfortable that you know what you're talking about, but I don't. And I kind of like that feeling. I like being in safe hands when it comes to something where I'm like, I'm not upset that I don't get it. It's kind of cool not getting it, but knowing you do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not it's it feels high level, it's very well done. There's something kind of incomprehensible, but you know that the person who created it knows exactly what I like that it's a it's a fun feeling as opposed to someone just bullshitting their way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like Donnie Darko, how it talked about time and wormholes, where I was like, shut up. Yes, liar, biggest liar in the world. Donnie Darko.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_04Isn't Seth Rogan in that? No, you fucking. Yeah, he's one of the bullies, isn't he? I don't remember. I don't think so. He's in Freaks and Geeks.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_04I'm pretty sure he's in Donnie Darko. I don't remember. He's in Observe and Report. Should we just watch Observe and Report?
SPEAKER_02Just pivot to just hang out on IMTV. Yeah, that's basically what I'm fucking doing. Yeah, Seth Rogan. Yep, he's in there. How did I remember that and you didn't?
SPEAKER_04I don't know. You like Donnie Darko more than me. You're you're more sick and twisted than I am. I'm just I'm not that sick and twisted. Donnie Darker than you. You are a sick and twisted boy. Yeah. But no, I I I love all the dev stuff. And so when she started, when he started talking about switching the audio and now it's in clear, I was like, this is so fucking fascinating. And I love the the old dude toner is like, no, I hope you were listening. He will murder you.
SPEAKER_00He will kill you.
SPEAKER_04It will totally happen. Yeah. And I felt bad that he's like, um, we can't hang out no more. That made me sad. I like that a lot. Poor dude. I know. Now you're just cut off from your cool genius program. $10 million dev separation fee. That's that's enough for me to keep my mouth shut for the end of time. Hell yeah. Fuck yeah. I mean, one percent of that would probably have me keep my mouth shut for the time to be honest. Is that one? Yeah, $100,000 would change my life, I think.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, we'll we'll see how Lyndon deals with it. Um, we won't. They're off the show, they got fired. Uh huh. The end of that. So, yeah, I do like that little personal moment between them. The question that it makes me have. I didn't, but I could play what are you gonna try to suck it. Um is how much do they know about the goal? No, about a the Russian kid being killed. Because he just referenced it. Exactly. Force literally says, like, you know what happened to the I think they know, yeah. Like, that's fucking insane.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I love the idea that he went back in and was like, Yeah, he's not coming back out. I just killed him outside. We're gonna burn them tomorrow. Yeah, well, because he has the CGI team there, like, you know, we said, they worked, they had to have worked on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. So I'm like, what the fuck? So it must have been the devs thing and like the or the devs team assisting with that, but I was like, Jesus Christ. Yeah, that caught me off guard. Yeah, I I didn't remember him referencing that, but it makes sense, and it's a good little line of dialogue of like, you know, what happened to the Russian kid. I don't I won't have anybody trying to sabotage my project or whatever the fuck he calls it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So the idea is if we're using the the rigid natural order of determinism as natural law, because that's a grid structure sort of concept of on rails, means you can go forwards and back. This is what I'm taking from it. And they're trying to do that. So when they're going back, they're trying to look at Jesus, they're trying to look at Joan of Arc, they're trying to look at Marilyn Monroe, get uh you know, balled out.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_04You're not allowed to look forward, but clearly they do look forward, they know she's dying in two days because they're using this to look forward on the tracks.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_04Lyndon opened the concept of the multiverse, which is the idea of every possible outcome. There is a world where that outcome is the norm. It did happen. All of that changes your math, and that cleared the the audio up because you're pulling from a bigger uh cachet, so to speak, of like, well, now I have it all, and now I can singular in all the Jesus' the Jesus. I don't know plural for Jesus'. Yeah, I like that. Like a murder of crows, uh the a crucifix of Jesus, the incubus album. A crow left of a murder. I like that album when it came out. I thought it was cool as hell.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I remember that that's a good riff that for whatever that single was.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that was a good riff. He's a weird uh riff guy. Yeah, those are weird riffs. Yeah, he's fascinating. The uh you take all the Jesus's or crucified or seeing a Jesus, and that's where I was trying to think is like, is there are are you taking all the ones that are similar, and then that's how you're getting a better compressed audio image? Like, I didn't know how that works. I don't think I'm supposed to, but that's what he hates about it is you're looking at a Jesus, not our Jesus, our Jesus. Yep, not our Jesus, not my Amaya. And yeah, which is a great line. Um, I actually quoted this before the podcast, and I'll quote it again is uh he's on his Mr. Cheswick shit, is I don't want your cigarettes, I don't want your cigarettes, I want my cigarettes. Yes, yeah. It's not the fact that I just need a cigarette, I need my Amaya.
SPEAKER_00Sure. I don't yeah.
SPEAKER_04If one hair isn't hers because it's a different version Amaya, it it's as if nothing. Like that's even worse. That's sacrilegious. Yeah, that's why it fucks me up when he goes in the room and she goes, Yeah, well, look at this shit. And he's like, God damn it, you're making me connect and care when I know it's not mine. Yeah, and that fucks with your whole head. I I know nothing about this, where your entire base of reality can crumble behind you because you're having an emotional connection and it changes how you think of everything. That's uh that is such a struggle that I'm like, that's kind of mean to do to the guy. I feel bad about that. He goes, I wish I could say it's not mine, therefore I feel nothing, because that's what I'm trying to say. But that's not how humanity works, and it's not real. I do care, I do feel as if it was your fucking daughter, therefore, everything I'm saying about determinism, honestly, it's kind of fucking bullshit. Yeah, I don't actually fully uh emerge emotionally resonate with it, therefore, it feels like it's not actually true. And then we're all right back to the faith thing. You're you're breaking my worldview that I'm already very fragilely put upon because it's not emotionally based.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Stop it. And I felt so bad for him in that moment.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04No, it's uh your reality breaking fucking sucks, so I've heard. So yeah. And I don't remember the rest of this show. I remember the end, and I remember two other things. So I don't remember a couple of how this is affecting him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I yeah, I remember a couple things, but not enough to put the picture together, even though I do want to put on the record while William does not understand all of the things I clearly do, and I just don't want to talk about them because I don't want to make William feel bad about himself because he doesn't understand. You totally get the multiverse and the quantum mechanics, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And anytime they say Qbert or whatever, you see my eyes go cross-eyed. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Poor buddy, you got enough to worry about. Just just yeah, just wanted to put that out there. I I know what they're talking about. Don't ask me about it, it's just gonna hurt your brain. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Don't worry about it, you know. I'll pretend I don't, so you're more comfortable around me. I'll humble myself in front of you.
SPEAKER_02Uh so uh, but yeah, I I'm super interested to where it goes emotionally because I remember a couple plot points, but I don't yeah, exactly. Like I don't remember where this takes forest.
SPEAKER_04Hold on. Do you think you understand quantum mechanics? Okay. One time uh we were in Odessa, and it was me, my brother Sean, and my dad. We were just talking, and this was this will tell you how long ago it was. This was like 12 years ago, maybe. And Sean was just getting into Joe Rogan, and my dad didn't really know the podcast of it being a big deal. Yeah, my dad's like, what that guy, he's kind of lame and he just talks a bunch of bullshit. And Sean was like, No, dad, you don't understand. He had like an astrophysicist on for like four hours, and he was explaining. And Sean is quoting this concept of the universe or whatever, and my dad just so frankly put, I know you're you're saying what that guy said. He goes, Sean, what does it mean though? Yeah, yeah. And Sean's like, but but the words I remembered the words, I can tell you the words he said. And my dad goes, What do you do with that? Yeah, like what does that mean? And it was one of those moments where my I was like, my dad's he's more clever than you know what I mean. It's there's so much of a put on with him, yeah, where he can cut through that bullshit and go, there's a difference between information and knowledge.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And he's it it does suck he had to school his youngest son and fight him about it and like make Sean feel dumb. But he doesn't go about the teaching moments the correct way. He's not great at it, but it was one of those moments where my dad's like, that's not the same. Yeah, just because you can say the stuff.
SPEAKER_02I know. You're yeah, old Bill, he's got some moments of wisdom where you're like this, yeah. Where it's like he's really into art kind of exactly where he's really sharp, but then he'll throw a curveball and you're like, okay, there's the yeah.
SPEAKER_04He introduced me to Radiohead and Princess Mona nokey. Like he was the one like, sit down, this is gonna fuck you up. Check this shit out. Exactly. She's gonna teach you how to kill a god. Watch this 12-year-old William or however old I was.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Shout out Wild Bill. Yeah, Dirty Dick Bill. Um no, that's my dad. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, gross. It's okay. Um But yeah, it's my understanding of quantum mechanics is is how qubits are and or what they are, they're the foundation of quantum mechanics. And just that they're from my understanding, they're uh they can get into these three c theoretical situations because they can be both positive and negative at the same time or some shit like that. But other than that, I have no fucking idea. Um and it's very expensive, has to be crazy super liquid cooled, I believe.
SPEAKER_04And yeah, I don't but no, I was just doing a joke of calling you stupid. I know. It was a funny joke. But then there was a part in my head of like, wait, you don't actually think you get this job. I do, I don't know, absolutely. You better not.
SPEAKER_02And all the names are referencing, I don't fucking know, which I'm sure they're referencing real quantum.
SPEAKER_04I I did look it up because I was trying to uh I did like your typical wiki. Yeah, no, I looked it up and it it it they're referencing the guy the thing is named after because he pulled he made the theory of the multiverse and stuff. But yeah, I was looking, I was like, wait, who who are you referencing?
SPEAKER_02But yeah, I do agree with you. You you see the machinations a little bit. And I I do kind of remember feeling this more towards the end of the series, where I remember it being shakier as it went on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Maybe that's the same thing.
SPEAKER_02As much as we've been just in awe and blowing them constantly uh for this whole season, we said it at the beginning before we got into it like, oh yeah, I remember it not sticking the landing necessarily. Yeah. But then hearing you know our friends talk about it on the podc pod, and they're saying how they really like the end and all this stuff. I'm like, oh shit, okay, maybe I was wrong. Because I remember just the end. No, I probably was. So I'm hoping with my uh whatever six years of wisdom becoming a father, you know, that that's definitely smarter now. Wonders for my memory, better focus, better patience. Uh actually have much better patience, actually. No, that's not true. But um just not with you. You're the exceptional, you're the only person I have grown less patient with. That'd be hilarious, actually. Uh well, well, it's debatable, you know. Podcast. I'm super curious. Because you have four episodes left. What the fuck's gonna happen in four episodes? It feels like this was like a huge floodgate of information. So I'm like, where, how are there four other episodes? Yeah. And the four other episodes are gonna be comprised in 48 hours, supposedly, right? So it's like a yeah, exactly. Now we got ticking clock. Yeah, because now it's you know, it was maybe it's been a couple weeks, you know, since the beginning of the story.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, time's been passing however they need it to. Now it's a it it now we're on the rails. We got two days. Exactly. Uh the other thing is, like, I'll say from this episode, I or I tried to say it like I'm understanding more of how the devs project's using determinism and why they're against the multiverse. He still hasn't said what the devs project's goal is. Yep. I'm pretty sure it's not just to get a video of his daughter blowing bubbles in a room and going, yep, that's her. That's the actual one, that's the real video of my daughter from what three years ago or however long. Like, I'm pretty sure that's not the end result. Yeah, whatever. That's as close as we've gotten, though, is they're trying to get an accurate visual. So far, that's it. That's it. That can't be it. Yeah. So there's still this whole reveal of what the hell are they doing with quantum mechanics and quantum computers and determinism. We still don't know. Yeah. Which is super cool to me. I would love to not know until the very last episode. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Like I would be very ecstatic if we And I don't know if we do know until the very last episode, to be honest. I don't remember. Yeah. Uh that'd be cool. That's my hope. Yeah. Because it is, yeah. And that's a a testament to the good writing, is absolutely we get a flood of information in this episode. A literal, like we learn so much shit, but we still don't know what the goal is. We still don't know the motivations between these are behind the stuff. I'm still intrigued. Yeah, exactly. So it's still uh stringing you along, you know. And we have our emotional through line of Lily, you know, debatable, I guess. But you know, now she's in the shit. She thought she was uh clever enough to to get around Kenton, but yeah, that guy now got her ass. Yeah, and I love the idea. I there's something so cool about being abducted by somebody and crashing the fucking car. I love that. That is cool. It's like I like them. It just is an idea. I was like, that's fucking metal. Yeah, it's very cool.
SPEAKER_04I do like the agreed random stuff. Uh yeah, while we're getting on random stuff, I wanted to say there is a pattern. I'm taking so few notes with the show.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So few. I'm writing a lot of dialogue. Oh, okay. I'm not yes, but I that's always a show of like just how locked in you get into it. Yeah, I think that's always a good thing. Usually on the movies that we watch that are really good, it's hard for me to take notes because I'm just fucking watching it. Yeah, I I love we're getting more of the homeless guy, we're getting hints there a little bit. I mean, I guess that's kind of wow, Nick.
SPEAKER_04Spoil a little spoilery, but he's gonna shoot somebody, but I'm just doing the finger guns.
SPEAKER_02But I love Kenton's reaction of like when he says, and we have those two POV shots, so we have Kenton's POV on the homeless guy, uh, and the homeless guy says, I'm not scared of you, man. And then we have the reverse POV shot looking up at Kenton, Kent says, I can see that, and I'm trying to figure out why. Yeah, that's good stuff. Fucking cool line. I love that. But yeah, and then just dude, there's something about a giant, I mean six foot four skinny guy doing the gun thing. That's just hilarious to me as he's driving away. Yeah, that's so funny. More creepy Amaya statue, silhouettes. Every episode they're they keep doing it. Her boyfriend, her ex-boyfriend, what's I can't remember the character. Jesse? That sounds about right. I like that he's sleeping on the couch with a towel as a blanket.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So that's such a good like bachelor.
SPEAKER_01He has an abaction sheets.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04I like watching Katie be an asshole.
SPEAKER_02I yeah, she's good at it. She's tough.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I'm intrigued by it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm so curious about her motivation because I forgot. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Uh, when Lyndon has the kind of aha moment looking at the the computer, I like that they bring back the sax phone thing or whatever, the theme that we haven't heard for a couple episodes. I like that. And they've It's almost like the it's uh it's like the machine's theme or something.
SPEAKER_04They also keep doing the we don't always have sound in the dev's office. Yes. In the in the room. Yes. So you see them talking and her being a s him being a static, but you don't hear. I I always like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because it's more effective that way.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I like that.
SPEAKER_04Because then it it's the what is it, the Spielberg, the reaction and then the explanation sort of thing. Yes. That trick always works. Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you get to see their emotional reaction first. She cracked what it's about something. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Then explain it to me. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that is a good thing.
SPEAKER_04That's a great thing. Yeah. Spielberg does that. Spielberg's been known to uh yeah. There's uh I don't know if you've ever seen it. Um oh shit. What's it called? Jurassic Park. Yeah, Jurassic Park. Thank you. They're looking, and he's like, oh my god, and he looks all crazy. You're like, what? What is he looking at?
SPEAKER_01And it's a giant fucking dinosaur.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Because you've never seen a dinosaur before, Nick.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So it's better to watch the character than you show the thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So one, two punt, you get extra out of it as opposed to just the dinosaur. And then you cut back to him going wow, because I'm doing the wow. Let me see him do the wow. Now I'm excited and anticipating what he's wowing about, and then I can wow with him. Wow as opposed to just doing it and going, Oh, wow. Wowie.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I knew the name of the movie the whole time. Okay. Yeah, he's done that a few times. Okay.
SPEAKER_02That's Spielberg.
SPEAKER_04It's kind of a hack.
SPEAKER_02And I just said Jurassic Park as a joke, and it was actually the prime example of I literally forgot about it.
SPEAKER_04If you didn't say anything, I was gonna stumble into it as if you've never heard of that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's yeah, he's a one-trick pony, is what we're trying to say. That's Spielberg. Yeah, he's got three themes and he does them for 40 movies.
SPEAKER_02Season 11, where we're gonna trash Steven Spielberg. Uh yeah, the anti-Steven Spielberg uh season, which would be hilarious. Uh that would be very funny. But yeah, I how do we have four episodes left? I don't know, but I'm glad we do because that's four more hours. But yeah, I'm curious to see if we get more of these television-you know, yeah, scenes.
SPEAKER_04Does he get weird with the plot the next couple episodes?
SPEAKER_02And are they all with Lily? And is that why we have a bad taste in our mouth about that? Besides the voice not matching. Yeah. Well, it matches something that just bugs you on a visceral level. I would love to hear your guys' voice side by side with the hilarious action. Can you do that? Uh hey, Siri, insert Lily Chan's voice from devs into uh this podcast. That sounds awful. I hate that. With author authorization from Nick uh cancel Siri can't cancel last request delete user locked out.
SPEAKER_04Siri uh dis disregard last request and uh show hidden screenshots in phone, pull up so fucking dumb. If if I know it wouldn't bug me more, I would put her Lily saying a line and then me trying to mimic her and overlap them, but it would I would hate.
SPEAKER_02Well, do it for do it for the audience because I'll never listen.
SPEAKER_04That's true. I forgot. Yeah, thank god. Yeah, you don't listen to these anymore.
SPEAKER_02I would be curious. I can I guess I can pull up an episode of the podcast.
SPEAKER_04It would be funny if like a year and a half ago I just gave us an intro song and never told you. Like we're always coming into like real big fish or something. You wouldn't. That's why Kira listens. She goes, I'm like, exactly. I open with square.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Well, she listens to it on sped up. It's insane. My voice. Could you imagine real big fish sped up? Yeah, just take that on for a still. Disgusting. Yeah, that's uh that's a day ruiner right there.
SPEAKER_04Yuck. So disgusting sounding. I hate that. No, that honestly, that thought you put into my head, it's the worst thought I've had in weeks. That's the most negative thought I've had.
SPEAKER_01Happy to fucking happy to. Yeah. Because that's that's that's horrible. Devastating. That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_04Um double time skull. Ugh. It's like when they do when they slow the Beach Boys like 200%. It's like a doom metal band or whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04But the the I don't even want to know the opposite.
SPEAKER_02It's just it's the fucking Benny Hill. I mean, honestly, yeah. Yeah. Ew. But yeah, I don't know. I'm I know a couple plot points, but yeah, how we get there and if it's starts to slip a little bit more. But yeah, that's a I think it's a very good point that this is so far the only episode that felt too for the sake of television play. Like a contrived, not or contrived as too negative, but a constructed scene that didn't feel as locked in as the rest. Yeah. Or as naturally written, because that's what he's really good at, you know. It just didn't fit in seamlessly. It was just like, uh yeah. Yeah. This could use a little bit of polish. Bugged me, but still excited.
SPEAKER_04Next week, episode cinco five.
SPEAKER_02Yep. And then yeah, two more episodes, just a solo. I know that everyone only listens for the guests now. Sorry. Uh episode seven will be Josh Jenkins, episode eight, Dave Jordan. So you can skip the next two episodes if you guys want, just to listen to it. We'll play it on double speed. Yep. But uh we'll be back next week. Thank you for listening. I love you. I love you too.