SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello and welcome to season 10 of I'm Your Buddy with Nick and William, the podcast where two best friends are watching and discussing the filmography of writer director Alex Garland.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

I'm Nick, who loves Alex Garland.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

And I'm William who also loves Alex Garland. And today we're going to talk about 2012 Dread. And we're joined by our amazingly handsome, awesome, taller friend older brother slash father figure who we're always trying to impress.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Stepfather John Muller.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

Yeah, he married another. I brought my belt.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Cool uncle that's oddly here later than I think he should be. Yeah, thanks for coming on, John.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Of course, of course. I wouldn't miss this one at all. At all.

SPEAKER_04 0:46

Yeah, we were trying to remedy the mistake of not having you on for the entire Evangelion. Goodbye. Still bitter. Still better. Well, it's it's a huge, it's the biggest mistake the podcast has made, and that's saying a lot because we did watch Friday Night Lights as the start of our uh podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Well but uh claimed.

SPEAKER_04 1:09

But uh yeah, we we would have Jesse Plummen no one else but you on for dread because we want to get a history lesson on everything, and and that sounds condescending.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

As a wizard, yeah, like movie goer.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Uh instead of a instead of a cherry sitting on an old tree stump we brought in some tales of uh olds for 2000 AD.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Well, boys, let me tell you about Judge Dread. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:36

But yeah, we're s we're stoked to talk about it. And we fucked this up yesterday recording uh in the future with Dave Jordan on XMachina. We forgot to ask him his basically his orange origin story with uh Alex Garland. So we like to ask our guests when we do these director seasons what was the first uh movie from the filmmaker that you saw? Okay, knowing about them or not, yeah. And then what's the first movie where you actually clocked the the filmmaker as the filmmaker, like, oh, I want to see this because it is Alex Garland?

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

And he's a little bit easier, probably because he's a more recent filmmaker the past 20 years. But what was the first Garland movie you saw, and what was the first movie you went to see because it was Alex Garland?

SPEAKER_03 2:22

It would have been like 28 Days Later. I think like legitimately 28 Days Later was so good that like I immediately started looking for Alex Garland. If it had his name on it, I was probably gonna go see it.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Yeah, yeah. So probably Sunshine would have been the next movie. Right, because that's his next movie. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Okay, yeah, and so and and and definitely the aesthetic and the choices there, definitely like it was just like this is a good writer. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's just something in it that like where I definitely felt like this is a trustworthy fucker. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Um like you're in good hands, basically. And so but yeah, and it was actually like the first movie, actually. It was very kind of like because I was like, damn, Danny Boyle really fucking killed this. Who wrote this? Yep. And then I was kind of shocked that there did he didn't have like a long list. Like he was kind of Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

He is one of those guys where that that since that movie was so big, that's kind of the first thing that everyone saw from it. Because that did change the you know, it brought zombies back basically. Um Right. Yeah, it was a big deal. Yeah, it was a huge deal. Yeah, because right before right after that is when the Walking Dead started being published, and that didn't get big until years afterwards, but that was the thing that kind of I think zombies went away in the nineties for a bit. I don't know. Because when were the last like popular Romero ones in the eighties, probably? I don't even know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

I think like the form, I think it kind of really re-kickstarted it. Because I don't I think Walking Dead, when does that start? It starts later.

SPEAKER_04 3:47

Yeah, I think it starts in 2003. So like the the conversation. Just a few correct. It was two thousand. It was later. Just a few years. Yeah, so because 28 Days Later came out in 2002 because it filmed during 2001. They have an anecdote about them filming on 9-11. Why that happened. And and then and in 2003, Kirkman starts doing Invincible, and then uh like six months later it comes out with The Walking Dead. So I think it's 2003. Um, and then 2004's Dawn of the Dead, is it? I think so, yeah. James Gunn's and Zach Snyder's Dawn of the Dead. Yeah, so I think it was this was the beginning of it. And this so yeah, that is so he's got a lot to answer for, notably.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Yeah, I mean, you know, and he also like actually, and there's a little bit of Day of the Triffids as well in it, too. Yeah, I don't know what that is. The so John Wyndham like wrote like this book Day of the Triffids. Okay, the opening is basically like there is this thing that happens, but the protagonist is asleep while it's occurring. Uh like and and that basically puts them outside of the sphere of the occurrence. Yeah, yeah. Like in the case of Day of the Triffids, like there's this this guy like uh is like his eyesight is is messed up, he's in the hospital, and then there's this comet that comes and basically blinds everybody in the world.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

Okay, that sounds familiar. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 5:04

And so when he wakes up, he's one of the few people who can see. Ah. And in the case of like Walking Dead, like he comes out and the world has changed, and like that opening is very similar to Day of the Triffins.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah, and that oh that that makes sense. I didn't know what it was, but I kept hearing Alex say, yes, uh, I am I'm not stealing. Like that was a big inspiration for 28 days. 28 Days. Was Day of the Triffins? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Yeah, you can reference it. It's a smart opening, like it's just a smart way to start a storyline.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

I mean, in The Walking Dead starts the same way, right? So maybe it's his like guys thing, you know. I don't think Kirkman ripped him off or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, I've never heard Kirkman talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

I've only heard out there's no way someone's asked him about it. John Wyndham is like for the Brits, like a very well-known kind of like British early science fiction author that isn't necessarily as well known in the in the United States. Okay. And so I need um what is it? Remember, Brian Aldous made fun of him and called him like a Cody Cataclysm author.

SPEAKER_04 5:58

What is that mean cozy?

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Like cataclysm author, like or a cozy catastrophe author. Okay. Like, because it still felt very like kind of stiff upper lip British while all these like horrible things were occurring. That's really good, yeah. But like he yeah, he's a great author. Like I've always really enjoyed his work. Yeah shit, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

You're talking to the least read people on the planet, but yeah. That's I that's why I'm here. I appreciate it. I came to drop knowledge. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Thank you. Shut the fuck up. Every thank you from William is like is legitimately like a sarcastic, it's always sarcastic. No. Yeah. Like you can just hear the tone.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

Yeah, it's bad. We're we're awful.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

The uh anyway, the um, but yeah, so and actually, and for that reason though, when I heard he was doing dread, I was psyched up. Okay, yeah. Like the um uh what do you call it? 20 days later, Sunshine Next Back to Back. Like And they never let me go, which I didn't see. We talked about you didn't see. The um but when I heard he was doing dread, I was like, this is the this is the one.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah. So and that's that's a good question too, because we're having you on as the resident dread expert, not only on the podcast and in this realm, but in terms of our comic friends, our our extended group of friends, you're the dread expert there as well. Dave Jordan likes to dabble.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

No, it's true. Like uh, I'm a like you know, I am not a an expert in British comics, but like I am actually for Albuquerque. I am probably like for Albuquerque, I probably know the most of anybody in this city.

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Did you actually read 2000 AD, the comic that's it?

SPEAKER_03 7:36

It actually uh so in the case of like like Dread, if we talk about kind of my history with Dread for a sec, like so I came across the thing about British comics, which is very odd for America, is there was this huge sea change in like 86 American comics, right? And they call it the British Comic Invasion, right? But it wasn't really an invasion. What it was was is DC took a checkbook to the United Kingdom and was like, You're being paid shit. Do you want to make some money?

SPEAKER_04 8:07

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

And so they basically was like a brain drain from the United Kingdom that took place in the 80s. Like, and I didn't really think about that because I like everybody else, I was just reading the comics. But at some point, I knew like was like, well, where did all this come from?

SPEAKER_04 8:22

So all those dudes who were working on 20 AD, which started in the 70s, correct? Started in 77. Okay, 777.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

And there's and there's a whole thing before that too. Like, there is like the weekly comics there, like have been going for a while.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

So it's just like Japan in terms of they have books that come out every week, and so it's little snippets of stories. So as opposed to, for those who don't know American comics, it's usually a monthly book. Right. You get a monthly story that's about 22 pages long these days for about four or five bucks. Right. But with like tw 2000 AD and a lot of manga magazines in and Japan, they'll have smaller snippets, they'll have chapters of books that come out every that every week.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

So and they're very they're kind of different in that, like in the case of uh manga, you're still getting like 20 pages. There's less there's uh what do you call it? The panels per page are like four versus American paneling, which is closer to like six, right? So they're telling less story, but it's a faster read. Yes. And there's also like each weekly is like I don't know, like three hundred pages. Okay. In the case of the UK, it's closer to like a normal amount, like thirty pages. You'll get like four to five stories. Each story is about five pages per week. Okay, wow. Which means that like you're getting these like like five pages, wait a week, get five pages. And that gives it a very strange to an American reader rhythm to the storytelling. Because it's kind of because they're trying to basically sell you on buying the next weeks. Yeah. So they always end big every five pages. Yes. Which gives it all a very pulpy kind of like over the top feel. Like they go for the the weird hit almost every time.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

Yeah, because it as an American comic book reader, you're used to that at the end of an issue. So you read 20 pages at the end, it ends on a cliffhanger because they want you to come back next month. Right. But in this British style, it's every five pages. So that it's like, yeah, your brain's not attuned to or it's not used to.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

It feels kind of weird. You actually have to kind of adjust yourself as like an American reader would be a good idea. I've never thought of reading them.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, I didn't know them.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

Yeah. And so, but for that reason, like you have these very high melodrama moments. Like, and on a regular, like on a bam, bam, bam. And it's also like the um like in terms of the British weeklies, like they they're also very weird because they're very segregated, kind of like Japan is. Japan has like like Americ boys' comics and girls' comics, men comic and women comics. And in the case of the the British weeklies, there were kind of girls' comics. Okay. And there were kind of kids' comics. And then there were kind of adolescent boys' comics. Whereas like most of the British invasion comes from those adolescent boy comics. Okay. But they're very adolescent boy comics.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

Yeah, like heavy metal stuff. Is that no?

SPEAKER_03 11:11

It's more like kind of like there's war comics, which all they do on those weeklies, like commando, and there was action and there was battle.

SPEAKER_06 11:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Like, they were just about war. And it could be different wars, right? Like it could be it could be from the German side of World War II, would be the protagonists. William Spain in Russia, right? Or it could be the scope. Like, you know, like uh like you know, the Brits in the First World War, Second World War, and they would move them around a little, but sometimes I think there was one called Mestizo with it, which was like like a a black guy in the uh Mexican Civil War. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like those so but and they have lots of like, you know, kind of like this is what this kind of gun is, and this is what this kind of like, you know, cheap does. Like that kind of thing, right? Like, yeah, that's like a weekly too.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

And then they also had like science fiction ones like Star Lord, which was, you know, just like all science fiction y whatnot. Yeah, yeah. And when 2008 starts, Pat Mills starts it, who's uh uh still a writer of comics now, and he starts it in this very like, we're gonna kind of we're gonna take this. There was a comic who uh had recently been shut down, I think which was called Action, because the British was like, this is kind of a bit much. It kind of like it had like uh, what do you call it? Like one was called Hellman, which was all about German author, offer, officer, like I think going through Europe, like like he's the hero. And then there was like Lockjaw, which was basically a Jaws shark, and it was based like he was the protagonist. And like, and then there was like a dirty hairy character.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Okay, right, and then like I thought you were gonna say they just wouldn't stop doing what if Hitler wanted like one of them.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

It's like but it's just all working. That's the thing is like what Americans don't understand. It's like this is all working class shit. Like the only people reading these comics are for the most part the lower and working class.

SPEAKER_06 13:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Like they it's super cheap, it's super pulpy, like the upper class, middle class kids might not even be reading them.

SPEAKER_06 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Like, right, so it's kind of for poor people, which is why when Alan Moore starts, he's like, I'm gonna do this because this is an art form that is trash, uh and I will make this trash incredible. Yeah, yeah. Right. So, like, so it's a political action for what Alan Moore does in the end. Gotcha. But like, and but like that kind of separation of classes isn't something Americans think about. Yeah, because we're not gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_05 13:36

Yeah, because it's huge over there. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Like it's a huge part of it. Like we're us, we're like racially divided, but there it's class divided. Yeah. And like and the sense of humor, the sense of humor of it is very kind of tawdry. It's very over the top. Like, like it ends on murder frequently to make the laugh.

SPEAKER_06 13:56

Ah, true, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

And so that's where 2000 AD comes from. It comes from that kind of tradition. Patmill starts it, he 100% believes it's gonna be done in about 10 years. He doesn't believe he's gonna get to 2000. Like when he when he named it 2008, he legit thought it was gonna die in like 85. Okay. Right? Because most of them didn't last that long. Yeah, yeah. So and in that, they at some point, because they're always stealing, right? They're always stealing ideas. So, because they're all weeklies, no one's gonna do a collection at that point. They're just artists and writers just writing weird shit for like adolescents to read, kids and adolescents to read. Right? And so he sees like Dirty Harry, Dirty Harry's making a lot of money. He sees Death Race 2000 by Roger Corbin, right? Yep. The skull, like you know, if you see that one, like there's like a guy in a helmet who's just like Dread. Yep. He's like, We're gonna make a space like detect, we're gonna make a like a future detective, he's gonna shoot a bunch of people, the kids are gonna love it.

SPEAKER_06 14:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

And so, and that's kind of where it all starts, is that kind of like, you know, part of this like weekly tradition. Everything in 2000 AD is is always super violent. Yeah, ultraviolet. Ultraviolent, over the top, frequently going for the laugh at a time where Americans would be like, I don't know if that's appropriate. Like that's really I don't know if that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

Yeah, a little bit of bleak humor, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

W which uh that's it speaks to the class part of it. Of like the we get it. Right. Stay away. We got it rough, so we're good laughing and looking and you know grinning at this sort of thing. It's not a big deal. Chill out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because when it stays within the class, working class specifically, like you have the added gallows humor, you have the added like camaraderie of that. And so, yeah, when people look at it, they're like, What are you guys doing? It's like shut up and get out of here. Right, right, right. It's not for you, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

And it and it kind of like even now kind of takes people aback. I remember there was a a documentary about it called what was it? Oh, I brought something uh Thrill Power. I think it was like the documentary. Okay. Like uh about 2000. It's called Future Shock The Story of 2008. Okay. And I was reading a review on it, and the guy was like, all this stuff is very macho and like over the top, and but it's like it was like I said, it was very segregated. It was just for boys. Yeah, yeah. Right. And so there are almost no girls in these strips. Yeah. And there's titties and you know, there's not that many titties, actually. It's fairly like there's some. Maybe now I know he's never read it. There is some, but like, but it definitely doesn't what do you call it? Like, there was far more sex, really, in like American X-Men. Um just terms of sexuality. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:38

That's a bathing suit edition stuff in the 80s.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

It's kind of like uh girls are yucky, or like, or if they're getting kind of closer to like puberty, like, oh like Judge Anderson's pretty hot. But like, you know what I mean? Like, sure, but it's not overt, yeah, yeah. Like in the way it is like in American comics, much more so. Like, Mary Jane has more sex appeal than like half of bo like half of 2018.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Well, yeah, and I forget about the British repression of sexuality and that kind of stuff. Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yeah, you're supposed to have sex to have kids that you don't want to talk to. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

But like anyway, so like so. The point is it's like, so that's where this world comes from, and it becomes this breeding ground of sort of young artists, yeah. Like young writers, and like Pat Mill starts Judge Dread, but the guy who takes it over and really makes it sing is John Wagner. Yes. And John Wagner takes it over, and he's essentially the best dread writer and the most important dread writer for almost the entirety. It's really only been till recently that people have figured it out. It's actually a very hard comic to write.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

Yeah, we were talking about this a couple weeks ago, which we should yeah, I'd I'd like for you to explain kind of the challenge of dread. Um, because a lot of people just probably don't think about it necessarily, but he's a very one-note character, right?

SPEAKER_03 17:51

Like he's a very like, you know, um He is the law. Like, right, right. But the thing is like He says it in the movie. He does, right.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

He says that.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Like the and he says it in the Sylvester Stallone movie. Like the uh but the thing is is like the world building is what is what he works at.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Right? Like, so like in the case of so you have this one note character, and you have to make the stories different. So we were talked about the fact that it's an anthology, right? Every week, you know, but one thing that's tr that's consistent, like the stories come and go, right? Stories get swapped out. There's always a dread story in 2000 AD.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

Like there's always a dread story.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Because he's one of their flagship characters.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

He is the flagship character. Okay. So like all the other storylines come and go and whatever, like, and like different artists pick up and different writers pick up, but there's always a dread story. Right? Yeah. And so for a while, it's actually a combination. They actually go by T. P. Grover. It's actually Alan Grant and John Wagner writing together. Mostly John Wagner, it sounds like. But they're kind of like writing together and making each other laugh. It's like editor and writer kind of writing. No, just cause they're just kind of co-writing for a while. The two on under T P. Grover, it's they're both doing Dread and Strontium Dog, which is kind of a space western.

SPEAKER_06 19:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Um, and then after a while, just John Wagner just takes it. And it starts out kind of like a little wonky at the beginning. Like, I actually tell people if they're like, Well, where should I start in Dread? Because they have the case files now.

SPEAKER_06 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:18

I always say start like around volume four.

SPEAKER_06 19:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Because one, two, and three have good things in them, but there's a lot of kind of back and forth. It takes a while before they can make the character function properly. Yeah. And it's really John Wagner who makes the character function properly. He's like, Yes, he's a one-note character, but we're gonna do other things. Right? So some of the storylines, right, in the case of that's also something to talk about, like some of the storylines are just five pages. Sometimes the storylines are like ten issues or five issues, and you start the start and finish, you know, will end at some point, and then a new storyline begins. Yeah. And some of them are they called they call them epics, and they're about like 30 issues long or 40 issues long.

SPEAKER_06 19:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

And it's just like you'll have this one dread story that has this like huge arc to it. Yeah. The most famous of that is the Apocalypse War, which is the first time they ever do it. It starts in Block Mania and then goes to the Apocalypse War. Essentially, the Soviets or their version of the Soviets invades, like Mega City, like has a full-scale invasion and occupation of the city, and then dread becomes the resistance and destroys them, and hilariously launches a nuke at the end to kill their entire nation.

SPEAKER_06 20:30

Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Like that's like how the storyline ends. It's like he literally launches nukes and destroys all the like the entirety of like the quote unquote Russia. Yeah, yeah. And that's it's probably in the 80s. Like, it's like it was like I think in uh like 82, like and like in which is hilarious because like you see a drawing from Carlos Esqueta, who's the chief kind of dread artist, yeah, of like the world literally breaking into pieces.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Oh funny.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Like and like yeah, the globe actually cracking or something. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

And the thing, the the way he makes it work, the way John Wagner makes it work, is like some of the storylines are barely have dread at all. Like some of them are like noirs. It's about the criminal, you'll see the criminal doing things, and then at the end it's solved by dread showing up and getting the criminal.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

He's the Columbo, he's the Columbo, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Like some of them are procedures where you procedurals where you see him tracking down a crime. Okay. Some of them are like kind of adventures, like, for instance, he'll go out into the cursed earth, which is the uh outland outside of Megacity, and like, and he'll go, you know, on like a kind of travelogue, yeah, like meeting mutants and fighting creatures. Some of them are just explanations of things in the city, yeah, which are like this is how our highways work. And then you'll see like kind of like how the highways work in Mega City, and then Dred will show up and shoot somebody in the face. Like And like, you know what I mean? Like, and so like and so like that is how it works. Like, you have this constant, and there's also the the thing about it is is and this is the important part, right? The part that like Americans have a hard time getting their head around is where it's the setting is. The setting is America. It was always meant to be in America. Yeah. Because they're always like, why is this British comic set in America? Because it's involving two things. One of which is kind of this like morbid fascination with American violence. Yeah. And this enjoyment of media that has American violence in it, right? And the other half is kind of the fact that Americans are stupid. Yep. And the fact is it's like Hold still. I'm like tune in. The fact is it's like they find Americans absurd. And so Mega City has those two elements, right? You have these people who are trapped because there's been a nuclear war in this like in this giant city, which combines kind of, I think it's supposed to be from roughly DC to New York. Yes. Like it's a normal movie. Yeah. Like, it's actually much more high-tech in the comic. Like, in terms of like much more futuristic.

SPEAKER_04 23:14

Yeah. Which the movie they just didn't have the budget for it, I don't think.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Right, but it's actually cool though. I like the way they did it in the movie. Yeah. But like, but in terms of the comic, the comic feels more futuristic. Yeah. But the truth is, is like the citizens are idiots. Right? The citizens of Mega City are almost like 80% idiots. And a lot of the storylines involving them doing stupid things and then Dredd trying to figure out what to do with these idiots.

SPEAKER_06 23:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

It's kind of like, it isn't just that like Dredd is a fascist cop, because he is.

SPEAKER_06 23:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

But like the uh but he is ruling a town full of idiots. So they kind of deserve a dread, is kind of what the comic is about. Like these idiots can barely like put a fork to their mouth without poking themselves in the eye.

SPEAKER_06 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Right? And so they deserve a fascist cop. Uh-huh. Is kind of what the storyline tells you again and again.

SPEAKER_06 24:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

An example would be like some of the like the storylines are like the um, what do you call it? Like, there was one where like uh like they find out that if they cover themselves in this jelly, they can bounce all over the city, right? They can they can jump off the top of these buildings, be and be unprotected.

SPEAKER_06 24:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:25

And they're being and all you have all these citizens of Mega City bouncing everywhere and killing children because they hit the children and they splat the children. Yeah, yeah. Or they kill dogs, or they jump through windows, right? And then like the judges are having a hard time with this because it's wrecking things, right? Yeah, and then they find the jelly is flammable, and so they just start lighting the citizens on fire who are using it, right? And so you have all these flaming citizens flying through the sky, yeah, yeah. And that's the end of the story.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I I want that movie. That sounds awesome. And I love the idea that like Brits kind of sort of nailed a perfect uh political satire of America of like, we're really, really dumb and we deserve to be like running. We're run by essentially by fascists. Which is I mean, it is kind of sorta how our politics do work, is like I think the left does kind of feel of like you're too stupid to do this yourselves. Yeah. And then the right is also like, no, we're gonna do it, but we're like your friend and we're cool somehow. Like they're both saying the same thing because you're too fucking dumb to get it. Yeah, yeah. And you do need a daddy in.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

Yeah. So there's those elements. And then not a mommy in. There's those two things going side by side. Sometimes they just have straight-ahead adventure procedurals. Yeah. Sometimes there's these weird satires, and just Wagner swaps it out however he's feeling in the moment. Yeah. And sometimes they're kind of laid on top of each other. So like these weird kind of like uh black humor jokes are in the middle of larger adventure stories. Yeah, yeah. So that is what Alex Garland was known to be obsessed about. Okay. Like he was a huge, huge 2000 AD fan. And honestly, most of his body of work could work as either a 2000 AD story or like a battle comic, like a war comic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Oh yeah. Can I ask you a question? Did you watch Civil War? No, I haven't seen it. So what you just said makes me think of Civil War, which we'll talk about, which is very interesting. A Brit doing an American political schism type movie, right? Where it comes from because one of the biggest complaints people have is like it doesn't make sense with the landscape and the politics. And he's like, I don't fucking care. You're all dumb. In my world, Texas and California got together because they're the biggest, and that's how dumb you guys are. Is like the way you divided lines was stupid. Right. And the whole movie is like, who are you shooting? He's like, I don't know, I'm being shot at, so I'm gonna shoot them. Like, what if it's your team and you just don't know? He's like, I don't know, I'm being shot, so I'm gonna shoot them. That's a whole scene in that movie where I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. That's what Alex Garland's American political where he's coming from is like. Exactly. Yeah, you guys are fucking dumb.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Completely framed by growing up reading 2008. And British war comics. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:32

Which is once again, like the British war comics didn't necessarily choose the Brits as the protagonist for every single series, right? Sometimes they chose the Soviets, like in the case of Johnny Redd. Yeah. Or like, um, what is it? In the case of Hellman, they chose a German like tank commander.

SPEAKER_06 27:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Right? In America, like, we're always kind of like declare your loyalty. Yeah. Like, where are you loyal to? Like, it's weird to us if you don't declare your loyalty. In the case of the UK, in the case of the the working class, they're like, I don't give a fuck.

unknown 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

You know what I mean? Like, they're kind of like, this is just funny to me. This is just fun for me. Yeah. And so they will suspend that judgment and that like pun intended. The uh right, no, totally. Like, an example of that is there are dread stories where all he does is crush a democracy movement. Like he will go, like that will be a storyline. There's a storyline where like all he does is basically undermine a a rising democracy.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

Which I did read that that was one of Garland's. He he apparently came up. This is the fourth idea he had. Yeah. So he wanted to adapt the couple of the uh dread standard stories, right? Which he started out with like going big with Judge Death, which I know is like when it gets I really want to read it.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

It's when it gets mystical. Yeah. Like like we like that involves magic.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

Yeah, I'm super I want to read that. I I'm gonna start reading some more dread after this. I've read some, but it's been a decade at least. But yeah, he started with that, which yeah, gets mystical, very wacky, literally like a skeleton uh judge, and like uh then he was gonna do one of those democracy crushing ones. Right. And then I think he was gonna do something more mutant heavy, where maybe uh dread was hunting down some mutants or something like that. Right, right, right. But then he settled on this kind of more original story, uh, which I think is great.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

I think like in many ways, the reason I loved it so much was because he's like, oh no, I'm just gonna do a normal story. Yeah. And that's what it is. It's just a normal dread story. It's not like in the case of America where like where if you do a Batman story, it has to be the most important Batman story. Yeah. Like he's gonna find the killer of his parents.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, prequel explaining everything.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

Right, right. It's just dread's gonna go in, he's gonna live his life, and at the end, it's gonna be like, How was it? He's like, uh, it's alright.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Yeah, he's given an assignment. This movie takes place over 24 hours, it shows the fucking meat grinder that it is, it lives up to its name, and he just completes the assignment and then he just fucking goes home. And and he only changes that slightly the a tiny bit because it sets up at the beginning, but like you mentioned, he's a he's a constant character, and it's usually the people around him that changes the stories around him that change, but he's the he's the constant. And uh Garland is able to pull off a thing where he's like, hey, Dred sets it up from the beginning with Anderson. If you break any rule slightly, you're gonna fail. Right. And you already failed your aptitude test. I told the chief this, so I think you're a fuck up anyway. He doesn't tell that to Anderson. But then by the end, she fucks up in all these ways, but she does her job well, and so he says she passes. So he goes against his own thing. He learns a little bit, but he's still the same guy.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Right, exactly. And it's like a millimeter of like flight adjustments.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

Exactly. Where and it's really Anderson who she learns about herself. Uh, she's the one who goes it. And and that's a really fascinating thing. Because you mentioned too, whenever Wagner was not riding it, a couple of other guys would come in and they wouldn't necessarily understand that. They tried to do different things with dread.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Right. And like, and a lot of your like like great authors now like made a stab at it and did a horrible job of it. Okay, yeah. Garth Ennis came in when he was like, he was still a teenager, in fairness to him. And he tried doing Judge Dread, and they're awful. Yeah. They're like unreadable. Like Mark Miller went in to try to do it unreadable. Wow. Like, you know. Well, because he's a big idea guy.

SPEAKER_04 31:36

What do you do with Dredd when you're an idea guy?

SPEAKER_00 31:38

I I feel like someone had to do the lone wolf and cub. Dred took care of like a mutant baby. There's 100%. That was gonna say. There's gonna be one example. There has to be a crack baby or something that like he took care of. Mutant baby.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

And the mutant babies are a thing because like they are actually like the uh they are ejected from the city. Oh, okay. Like they are sent into the wasteland. Yeah. They are sent like into the wasteland. They are sent to the cursed earth. Yeah, yeah. Like if like there's like a mutant child. So there are storylines involving parents hiding their mutant children from dread. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and in those cases, he is essentially the villain of the storyline. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:20

That makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Now that yeah, it's and I think that's the thing that I think Americans have a hard time with is like British authors in those stories commit to the bit. Like, and they also kind of like fucking with their their audience. They're kind of like, oh, you like this guy? You like this cop guy? Yeah, yeah. He's a fascist. You like to do that. We do not ha ha ha ha. Look at you. He's crushing democracy. Did you hike that? Is that good for you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

We do not do that here.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

It's very different from like how American comics draw. Yeah. We need them to be essentially good people.

SPEAKER_04 32:54

Yeah, they have to be one thing. Right. Whatever they represent, they represent the thing.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Essentially goodness. Like, more often than not, or at least decency.

SPEAKER_04 33:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:03

Like to a degree. Yeah, yeah. And I think in the case of the and I think that was kind of the thing that happened in 86, though. Was it kind of like like the British food is horrible, right? Mm-hmm. But there but the British writing is extra spicy. Right? The British writing is mil wildly spicy.

SPEAKER_06 33:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

And like you had American comics which were on the mostly bland side.

SPEAKER_06 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Right? Like before the Brits show up. For sure. But there's a couple of exceptions. There's like Shaken and Miller. But the majority of it was pretty kind of like low-level crises. Yeah. And then you throw all these like super spicy authors into the mix, and that's what we have now. It's like American author or American readers have adjusted their tastes. Yeah, that it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

They British authors. I've never even thought of that before, but that's crazy actually. Yeah, because I I hadn't put that history together in the comics industry before, where yeah, they bring in these guys from 2000 AD, they just pay them to write American characters. And yeah, because the shift that you always think of, or that I always thought is it's in the 90s and it's the artist empowerment with image and all that kind of shit, which led to its own thing. But in terms of actually completely shifting the tone into the new kind of modern age, I never put it together that it's these Brits coming over. Yeah. And kind of adjusting the taste of like American readers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Because they're like, that's pretty solid. This Watchman thing is pretty tasty. What else do you have? Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 34:29

Because I never thought Yeah, because before that, it's I mean, what's the 70s? The Silver Age kind of stuff. Yeah, Bronze Age.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Bronze, yeah, so you know, and it's and you see and you see Americans trying to do it. Yeah. Like they're gonna just gonna be a little more mature, but they kind of fail. Yeah, yeah. Like it's really until the the the British authors start playing around. We're reading V for Vendetta, and we're reading Watchmen and Swamp Thing and Neil Gaiman, you know, Requis and Pacha, like Neil Gaiman, like you know, like the like the like that all of a sudden the taste of American reads starts changing and American authors start changing too with it.

SPEAKER_04 35:05

Yeah, exactly. And all the and the guys uh influenced by reading that when they were younger and all, yeah, it's so it's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

But the reason that I bring all this up is because Garland is coming from a very specific, yeah, like to this day it feels like to me, like he is coming from this very specific breeding ground of storytelling and storytelling type.

SPEAKER_06 35:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

Where like the civil war is not something any of us in this room are capable of writing. Yeah. Because we can't detach ourselves from the reality of like our political stances. Yeah, yes. In his case, he's like, so fucking what? Like, you know what I mean? Like it's war, baby. Yeah, damn. You want war, like an interesting part of it. Right, right, right. Like, I'm here to show you a war, I'm here to show you battles and show you people fighting.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

You guys are gonna do this anyway, so I'm gonna explore it.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

And it drives us crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Like in terms of this that detachment is not to make everything about Star Wars, but like we don't like people messing with our iconography. We don't like if a legend is a thing, you gotta not play with it too much. We play with power fantasy, we don't play with subversion like that, and it ruined Star Wars when one guy tried to do that one time. Right. And we're just like, yeah, don't ever fucking do that. Yeah, that's that's a that's a really good point. Which and I don't have faith in this, but there is a thing in my head of like how does this fan base how is everyone gonna handle Robert Downey Jr. playing Doom?

SPEAKER_05 36:39

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

If it's a try and true villain and not like a good guy, bad like good intentions, bad method type. Like if he's an actual villain, how will they sit with that? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

It drives him crazy so that's it. That's a good question, yeah. And like, and in the case of Dread, right, that character is allowed to be like it's like he is one note, but where you put the note is according to the author.

SPEAKER_06 37:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

And like, and the like in the case of this one, this is a straight-ahead dread story. This is an adventure dread story, and an assessment story, which he did there are multiples of those in the dread comics. Oh, okay. He's he's given a rookie, and then we see them like get him assess the rookie. Okay. Sometimes they fail, most of the time they do okay. Yeah. At one point he's given a clone of himself and like and does the assessment of his clone. Like, um and you know what I mean, like, but you feel it in there, like what is it? There's a scene where Anderson kills a guy. Yes. And he's like, you know, that guy's like, you know, sentences death. Yeah. She kills him, and then she meets his wife. Yeah, yeah. Never happens. Like, in like, you know, and she doesn't even show remorse. Like she doesn't, she's like, huh. Like it then moves on. Yeah, yeah. It's a hard beat to Americans Let Pass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's they'd have to be like, oh, I'm so what am I gonna do? How am I gonna make it up to her? Like there would have to be a flashback scene where she somehow makes it up.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Yeah. Well, and that's the thing is she has the in that elevator, she kind of has a moment of doubt. I think she's thinking about it at least, you know. And it cuts to dread who's looking at her just fucking frown. Yeah, like grimacing constantly. It's still there's still so much violence. She still has to get the job done, and she just gets and she's just starts killing fucking people. So like that's her first kill, and she feels bad about it for a split second, but then she has to lock in because she they're gonna fucking die. And so yeah, I it's brilliant. Where yeah, in an American context, that would be like a crisis of conscience, and that would be revisited over the story. But for her, she's like, I killed this fucking guy, but we're still gonna die. I've already failed this test, so fuck it. Right. I'm just gonna kill people so we can survive.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

So British comic, British writer, British director, set in America. I'm American, despite what Nick uh calls me offline. What's your last name, William? Ernst? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

That doesn't sound very American to me.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Well, it's complicated. It used to some people have it for a first name and they changed it for certain political reasons.

SPEAKER_04 39:17

But is that was that after World War II?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah, well, timelines are uh dicey. Don't worry about it. We don't look that far back. I was born in '88. Anything that happened before that's not on me. So Coincidence. There's a thing. Yeah, 88. Jesus Christ. Walking right into it, bud. Okay. Alright. So I gotta somehow pin this on Nick. This movie feels like, from an American standpoint, you have a cop killing drug addicts. And kind of saying, rules is rules. Technically, they broke the law, so I'm gonna shoot them in their face. Yeah. And to teach her kind of sort of like, well, that's what we do. Like we're assessing the law. The law is broken, we we uh we dole out the justice that we see fit, all of these things. And one of the biggest uh shifts and turns is Anderson meets Donald, Gleason, yeah, yeah, sees into him and goes, This is just a pathetic guy caught in the system. He's not necessarily an evil person. He's he's working with bad people, he is breaking law, doing bad things, but for a different reason, and she lets him go. And then Drudge's brain goes, Rules is rules.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

You're supposed to kill Well, he wouldn't be killed, he would go to the the cube.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

That's what I meant to say. It's like he he still is a criminal, even if there's something else there, and she's like, I'm making a humanitarian kind of empathetic call.

SPEAKER_03 40:46

Well, that's when she says, I already failed. Yeah, so I can do what I want. Yeah, and it's my job. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

This is where it feels very we're dealing with American politics where I think the Republican viewpoint, a lot of people's viewpoint, it's not just Republican nowadays, which is if you're on drugs and you're doing bad things, I don't care that you're going through something of a struggle. You you're making this unsafe. Get him out of here.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Round them up, boot them out, get them out. The the idea of stealing out of desperation, we look beyond and go, no, but you're stealing, so get out of here. There looks like he's having a conversation about that.

SPEAKER_03 41:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in the case of like, it's actually consistent for the characters, actually. The Judge Anderson it has her there's a lot of kind of offshoots of dread. And Judge Anderson is the one who's probably been used probably the most frequently. Okay. And so, like, there's a lot of stories where it's just Judge Anderson usually involving kind of more mystical end of the spectrum stuff.

SPEAKER_04 41:52

Because she is she a mutant in the comics?

SPEAKER_03 41:54

She is, yeah, yeah. She's a psychic in the comics. And so she has like psychic battles and things of that nature. But the thing is, is like when they're together, she's a little jokey, and she's always like she is always arguing against him in terms of empathy. Like she is always arguing for empathy. And he's always like, Don't be an idiot, that's not how we do things. Yeah, but so so that that moment is consistent to the characters. So like to me, yeah, like exactly like because we're thinking like in terms of what are they declaring. Yeah. And in the case of the the author, is like, no, this is consistent to the character. Like she has this is what she would do. She looks into people's minds and she sees the context, the larger context of what drives people to things. And Dredd can't do that. Dread is like, this is what you have done, this is what the sentence is.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Logic reason, you did this, this is the sentence, that's it. Right. And I go about my job that way. So I I I like that that's in here. I I'm curious how Alex feels about it, because while we're going through his filmography, I made the joke last episode. I make the joke in the next episode that he can't stop writing and talking about love. Yeah. And how that kind of sort of saves the day every time. And all his movies are about people trying to express love. It it's in 28 Days Later. Like, it's that's the whole are you did you turn or not your rage? But we love each other type of thing. So, like, for him to discuss empathy in a fascist movie, I I I want to hear him talk more about that. I'm very fascinated on how he feels about it. Cause this is one of those areas where what mirror is he pointing to who? Like, does he really truly view Americans? Are we dread? Are we the fascists? And then the the hippie empathetic is like, it's not gonna make it? Is it not gonna survive in Mega City? Is there a failing there? Or does Dredd look at that and go, There's a time and place for that too? Like I'm curious what he wants to say.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

I really think that Yeah, this it makes me think of two things. One with Civil War, which we'll talk about when we get to it. I th I th I hope your framing of it makes Dave Jordan watch it. Because he I think he's worried about if it's gonna be about American politics and it's gonna you know trigger some kind of negative feelings or something, but it's not. Coming from the British uh perspective on America, hopefully that'll make Dave want to watch it. But two, that's such a fucking great observation in terms of what Garland is interested in. There's always a system that is negative, be it the fascism and dread, be it the military in 28 days later, be it the donor program, be it the donor program in 28 days later, be it uh the tech in ex machina, which we haven't talked about, it's in next week's the donor program and never let me go. Yes, it um and then yeah, and the tech bros at Ex Machina and God in sunshine. And yeah, the sun in sunshine. So like and it always comes down to personal choices, and we are driven by love. We are these small people who exist within these systems that are always struggling just to find meaning in all this fucking in the meat grinder of it all. Be it a donor program, be it a military, be it the war, be it the sun dying, I guess. Uh but yeah, that's such a fucking fascinating thing. That's almost in every one of his movies. So I'm gonna I'm super curious how it's gonna pop up in Annihilation. But yeah, that's such a great point.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Uh yeah, I and I I think he's gotta be speaking to something because he uses the meat grinder term. That's how he's describing this world. Uh who stands out more from the people in Mega City is Dredd or Anderson the outlier? Like who blends in more with that world is, I think, fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 45:46

Well, and it ties into what we've discussed too, and we talked, me and John talked about this a couple weeks ago too. Uh the the Jenkins observation, which is now I'm coining that, of uh you have the protagonists who are uh uncharismatic in almost all of his stuff. But and in in Dread, you have him, he's representing the system. And I think it seems like Garland is like, okay, these systems of oppression exist no matter what the circumstances. Yeah, they always exist.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

Right.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

And he's interested in telling stories about the characters around those systems who do have empathy, who do feel love, who do strive for something more. And that is what humanity is about. It's about searching for meaning in these oppressive systems because those systems always exist. And in this movie particular, Dread is that system.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

But he's not an idealist.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

But he's also like, if you think about it, like he is also he is part of the system, but he is also an honest part of the system.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

Yeah. Yeah, he's he's a flexible part of the system.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

He has more flex than and he also there is like there are corrupt judges who show up. Yes, and he will not tolerate them. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. It's like for like, yes, this system is what do you call it, oppressive, yeah, but it's an honest oppression. And it's like and he is still a law giver, right? So like any unlaw will is not tolerant to him. Well, this I mean it's like kind of like a white, a white blood cell, yes, like if anything, like this is like non-discriminate.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

This is this is literally how uh a lot of Americans now have been adopting uh modern fascism, is they they legitimately speak to the idea of a democratic uh nominated system. It isn't working, it hasn't worked for my means, for what I need, the America I want to live in. I actually think it would be best if we got rid of it.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

We put someone in that is a white, you know, Christian nationalist, we eliminate this whole political thing, and we let it run, be run the way it needs to be run to course correct to get us back on our uh white nationalist roots. Like that's how they got there is going fair doesn't equal correct or fixed. Right. We gotta walk away from that. I don't care about your feelings. We should go to fascism, we should get a dictator as long as they're the right ones for white nationalism. Right, right. And because it's the best for us, because we're dumb little animals, we're dumb babies, and we do need a daddy to control all the babies. Like that is how they speak as America as a whole now, is they go, Yeah, we couldn't be left to our own devices. Look at what we do every election's uh 4951. He goes, So let's get away with that. Yeah, let's put a dictator in because w they would know best, and we can't be uh we can we're not responsible to do it right. That's how we're talking now. So I think it's very important.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

Dread harder to read, right? Because like and Dave Jordan and I talked about this recently. Like the fact is, is like that was something we always enjoyed. But the truth is, is our present came way too close to the British joke, or way to the I'm sorry, the United Kingdom's joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the joke of us, which they were playing with as this kind of intellectual game of kind of like and I think actually in that uh documentary, like about 2008, uh Gaiman referred to Dredd as the ultimate case of having like eating your cake and having it. Yeah, yeah. Because they're playing the game of like we're kind of like enjoying this fascism, but it's not real. Yeah, yeah. And it's not our.

SPEAKER_04 49:34

Yeah, we can enjoy the violence and the ridiculousness of it, and it is entertaining.

SPEAKER_03 49:39

It's entertaining, right? But like but it isn't reality. Yeah. And so us in our democracy can play with this this fun game of like this fascist judge who sometimes is like good guy, sometimes bad guy. Yeah. Right? And now it's a harder thing to enjoy for me. Uh-huh. Like, because it's harder for me to detach from. Sure. Whereas, you know, when I was like first reading it back in like when I was in my thirties, right? Like, it was like, oh yeah, this is fun.

SPEAKER_06 50:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Like what a good joke on us. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 50:10

Like living in the lie of the 90s. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 50:12

Like, you know what I mean? Like, and now, like, with you know, American fascism on the rise, uh joke's a rougher joke for me. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah. Exactly. And it that's where uh I I I think it's really interesting this movie came out. It of course it didn't make a lot of money, but I think it's because it doesn't say fascism's bad. Right. It also really, really doesn't say it's right. It doesn't say either way. Like there's again, Wait, yeah, yeah. I don't know if Anderson's gonna make it. I don't know if she wants to. I don't know if she's cut out for this.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 50:49

The fact that she has empathy, you can watch it and go, well, I'm glad that happened. And then there is a part of like, yeah, but she ain't gonna make it.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

That'll get her killed in this world. You can look at Dredd going, Oh, this is bad. He's gonna survive. And there is that uh kind of old guard very uh fashion jacent of like you break the rules, you go to jail, I don't want to talk about it. Right, right. I don't care you were in hard times. Like get out of my get out of my vicinity with all of that, and that's where the dread thing is the dirty hairy, the death wish, the all of those things from that. Something bad happened, I now am allowed justice. That's why we as Americans are deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply irrationally obsessed with a home invasion. Right. We can't think of a greater reason where we're justified in murder is going, well, they came into my place to do harm to me. Statistically, it doesn't happen, but that's everybody's big fear. It's also their secret kind of like I'm getting a gun, I can't wait for someone to try and knock my door down.

SPEAKER_03 52:08

There's a huge it is a weird, like uh what do you call it? Metaphorical benzo for a lot of Americans. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? Like this idea of like I have this weapon and I am now safe. Right? And like and actually I remember I when I was uh an EMT, I uh had a uh another I worked with a paramedic who would just talk about like the fact that one that he had a gun and two that at some point if someone tried something, what he would do, and he would he would talk through these narratives of people coming at him, yeah, and then him drawing his weapon and how he would draw his weapon and like where he would aim. Yep. You know what I mean? Like with an enormous, chubby little guy. Yeah, like you know what I mean, like like this matzaball of a human being, and like who's like walking through this fantasy of of of murder, because Americans have a hard time with the idea that like maybe the solve is not killing people. We can't it that that takes too much. Like, like it's like I I want to solve this, but I want to solve this by murder. Yeah, and it's so hard for Americans to let that go.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

I think it's also it's evolved over time because uh the quaint 50s was ooh, if someone talks to my girl, the the one too. Get your damn hands off my woman. Like it's just that. We just upgraded the tech to you know from fists to berettas. Like we just keep moving that thing of like I want to play out the masculine power fantasy of uh winning this scenario, but the more the guns get involved, well, the crime has to also escalate. It's no longer a guy side-eyed my girl. It's now, you know, five um racially ambiguous skinned people are picking in my doors and windows, and they're like, oh, I checked. And making me try to make me empathetic. Oh, and I can't. Yeah, because you you want nothing more, and by you, I mean uh people, men maybe is we want nothing more than to be on the news in front of the house with the blanket over, and it's more like a cape. And I'm just like, I mean, I had to do what I had to do. There was no other option.

SPEAKER_03 54:31

Well, I mean how many, how much of like, and I don't know in the case of like you know, the rest of it, but like in terms of straight men, how many fantasies go through our heads of us winning a moment in a moment of violence? Oh, yeah. All the time. Like all the time. And it's also like just to remind everyone, there are no the cops have no guns in the UK. Yeah, yes, yeah, you know what I mean? Like there are very minimal like weaponry in the United Kingdom.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Yeah, guns are I mean, it's why that's why uh you know, like, that's why dread and war comics are fun for them.

SPEAKER_04 55:07

Yeah, because they don't have access to them like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:09

They're like that is not a possibility.

SPEAKER_04 55:12

But I think uh you saying that and discussing this subject makes me think of just the the defensiveness of human psychology and the basis of our country, which is the manifest destiny, the destruction of the Native American people. I think there's something of that baked into Americans where we have this fantasy of oh, we know someone can come into our house and kill us because we did it. We've done it.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah, honestly, that has gotta be something the masking of the guilt of yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

That's gotta be it. Like, because we literally fucking did that across this entire country. Yeah, and we know that we don't like talking about it, especially Republicans. We don't, oh this country's based on faith in Jesus and all the goodness. But like, there's no way that that isn't part of the it was.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

I mean, it's even I never thought about it before, but it's like well, yeah, because it's of course it's even lighter, is like when Obama became president. So many older white people were like, he's gonna do what white presidents were doing for white people is like, but for blacks, he's like, Yes, exactly. Blacks are gonna like get stuff now.

SPEAKER_05 56:21

Do you remember what we did to them? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

Like there's such a fear of like, I think the tables might turn. God help me. Yeah, like that was such the paranoia. Like he's gonna give black people checks, he's gonna give black people phones, watches, and money, and they're gonna get they're gonna get an advantage. They're gonna get a Lego. There was a terrifying notion of that. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

It was very real, actually.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Oh, yeah. Actually, hilariously, what was it? My grandfather's brother. Like they're like your great uncle. Like, yeah, like my great uncle, he visited at some point, right? Like when Ob when Obama was first elected. And I had lunch with him and his wife. And they were like, Well, you know, my like, you know, my son works in the Pentagon, but you know, I don't know. Like, I mean, now if you're not good with the brothers, I don't know if you're still gonna have a job. Yeah, like and I was like, what the what is what do you think is about the happening?

SPEAKER_00 57:17

He told his son to Google what's a wave cap for. He's like, You gotta brush up. Like, you gotta brush up, you gotta pass the job.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

I mean, that was a Latino family, like, but like, I mean, it was very like kind of like, what? Yeah, so like random. Yeah, if like you if you mess up the hand app, like like you know what I mean, like you're powered, brother.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

Like, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah, it's people's views. I mean, obviously, we're we live in America, but yeah, we have such skewed views about literally fucking everything, especially ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Well, it's power who's allowed to have it and not, because uh, when certain people have power, it's a fantasy, and when you see other people obtain power, it's it's very scary. Yeah, those are scary stories and things like that. Because we know what has been done with power in our country. It's been normalized that one certain group gets it, has it, and it's actually okay. And I'm not talking about Israel nukes, but like it's okay certain people have power, other people aren't allowed to have the same power because we've done horrible things. We're civilized now. Like we don't do that anymore. I did, but we don't now. God, human beings are fucking stupid, yeah. And yeah, no, enormous.

SPEAKER_04 58:32

Yeah, and which ties into the fucking ex machina thing, which comes out next week and is in the future. But it's the quote when he's drunk on the fucking couch, right? It's like a man's previous, whatever I'm paraphrasing because I can't remember, but it's about a man's previous good deeds. Yes. Forgive him for his current bad ones or whatever the fuck it is. Yeah, that's the Doppenheimer quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're we're really broken country.

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Well, it's a lot of people. And it's no, of course, and it's interesting to see someone revel in it. Yeah. That is part of the the the strangeness of it, of Dread. And I think that's the thing that, like, I'm sure actually a lot of people asked me when I said I was gonna go see Dread, yeah. It would be like, the Sylvester Stallone movie?

SPEAKER_04 59:16

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about what's your history and what are your thoughts on that? Because it's 1995, I think. Yeah, they did a Sylvester Stallone version, and Dave brings that up next week where he said the same thing, where he's like, when I saw Dread, people were like, Oh, what a sequel to the Sylvester Stallone. I it never came on my radar. Granted, I was whatever eight or something when it came out, seven or eight, but you mean you you never made the connection? No, I just don't know what the cultural impact of dread was.

SPEAKER_03 59:46

Right, it's actually really it's actually really interesting because it is an example of an adaptation which sank the property. Yes. So, like, so you know, you had this, you know, like sort of British invasion-y thing happening where people are starting to become more aware of British comics and British comic creators. They throw dread out there as kind of, or judge dread, I should say, because that's what the Sylvester Stillowins called. Yes. It's a it's pretty bad. Okay. It's interesting because his uniform is much closer to the one in the comic in terms of how it's drawn.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

Right? But it has none of any of the soul of the thing or lack thereof. Right? Like the um, and it's very like he has the helmet off a huge amount of the time because he loves to show his face off. Yeah. Like there's a romantic interest, which Dredd has never had a romantic interest.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Is that the movie with Rob Schneider? He's in it, right? He's the like buddy silly. Is he the silly button? I think it's a good thing. It's like a demolition man. He's in one of those.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:43

I think he I think he is in Judge Dredd, and he he's like one of the guys in the chair, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Yeah, and then like uh, and then Rico, who is uh a drought uh dread's clone, shows up in it. So they have like things in it, right? Well, there that's a real part, that's a like real storyline. I love that. But like, but like but it's it's it's super campy, super kind of gross, like, and very Hollywood. Yeah, like so it's an American interpretation of this British thing, and it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

Well, it's uh it 1995, and we I bring this up all the time, and I already said it in this podcast that the lie of the 90s of like like big bombasket, the world's gonna be fine, everything's good, right? And it's bullshit, you know, and it's coming off the machismo of of the 80s of the 80s and 80s.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

We're dancing in the end zone, exactly, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

And so how many Super Bowls does the Soviet Union have? Yeah, yeah. Fucking zero.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Goose egg, bitches, pussies, fly eagles fly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:40

But yeah, so anyway, so like so you have this like like really horrible adaptation of it, right? Like, and and definitely gets everything wrong in terms of the character. Like he has like a huge, you know, arc change, and like, you know what I mean? Like, because it has to be the Hollywood way. Okay, like there has to be a romance that has to be like blah blah blah. And then and so when the new one's coming out, like I had what do you call it? I'd come across like a Garth Ennis version, horrible. It was like obviously Dread sucks, right? And then I came across a copy of the Apocalypse War, and I'm like a back on board, uh right. And then like, you know, at that point I was like, well, this is actually really interesting. Yeah. After I read this kind of collection of the Apocalypse War. And then like started finding different things before the case files came out. Like I was looking for kind of collections that came out of the UK. And then like the case files come on, like they start releasing the case files from Rebellion, and then the dread comes out, and so at that point I'm hyped up.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:33

Because I've like, now I have real history, I know about the comic, I know about how strange it is as an as an intellectual idea. But I was trying to sell it to other people, yeah. And they were like, like the Sylvester Stallone movie, that movie's horrible. Yeah, why would you make a sequel of that? So but so the thing is is like in order for Garland to make this movie, he had to love it. Yeah. He had to love the property because he was gonna be swimming upstream.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:59

You know what I mean? Like, and you can tell in the movie, like how much he loves it. Oh yeah. Like there's like I feel like his love for the k for the megacity and dread and all the sort of the methods of it. Like, there's all sorts of references in it, like recyc, which is the recycling station where you throw dead bodies, yeah, which suspicions are eventually turned into their food. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and are sold in their hot dogs, which they call hotties, and you see like a hottie stand in the movie.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

Like the um, like they're there, like the way the criminals act, they're the the huge blocks are there. Yeah. You could just feel his love for the property.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:36

Yeah, and I think he actually like got friendly and had some kind of uh friend sh I mean that's that's the same thing. I think he somehow got became friends with with Wagner himself. I think he met with him before he started adapting the property, and one of the little trivia things that I read was he would actually ask for his input on Dred's one-liners. Oh, nice. In terms of yeah, and we'll we'll talk about some of them, I'm sure, once we get into some more of the dialogue or random things at the end. But like, yeah, so you have the originator and the best writer of the character actually informing the adaptation of it. Right, right, right. Where I I highly doubt that they had any relationship with the original creators in the 1995 movies. Oh no, god no.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:21

Um so, John, this I need to uh tell you something that comes up in this podcast a lot. Oh, yeah. I really like the video game Elden Ring. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a big fan of this. This is one of my favorite things in my uh life. Alex Garland is now tapped to write and direct an adaptation of this game. Yeah. I immediately, when I hear the news, because I love this thing, and video games notoriously don't make movies good movies. Good movies, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't I don't want an Elden Ring movie. I don't want anyone to do it. It's not gonna be good. Right. Six out of ten, at best, it can be okay. The more we talk about Alex Garland and how he works in dread, because Alex is a fan of the game. Right. He pitched. One of the things that he did is he on his own did a 160-page script treatment with uh artwork and design ideas, and he went to the creator of the game and said, This is what I want to do. The creator of the game said, That's awesome. I think you should. So, like, he's already buddying up with the original creator, he's already in that world, he's already coming from I'm a fan of this.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:35

And he is known, as we've discussed, to make great films with uncharismatic protagonists. Because that's how Elden Ring is. You play as a nobody. Oh, okay. Okay, you play as a nobody with you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

It's an RPG, so like yeah, you're a you're a nameless nobody that uh goes into this giant oppressive world. And it's also the more we like specifically with Sunshine, the the games of Elden Ring. And Ring are very obsessed with the Lovecraftian idea of like we can't understand and comprehend gods, and it kind of sort of breaks our brains when we get close to them. So it's like everything's lining up for Alex to do a good job. And every time we talk about this, I get more excited.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

No, I could see why.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

You know what I mean? Because I was terrified, and then when you're you're a huge fan of 2008, is this a good dread movie? And is this a good movie? Yes. See, I'm getting more. Yeah, no, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:31

I think she's coving up. I mean, the like in order to make it work, right? Like in terms of reality and film, he had to kind of John Carpenter it.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:43

Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:43

Like I said, like the comic itself is a little more high-tech. Like there's more like, you know, flying, like, you know, spaceships. There's like they literally are in space. At times, like, you know, the judges have gone that far. They've done dimensional traveling. There's like, you're right, like, there's all this, like, like, because but the thing is, is like, in order for him to make this property work, he had to kind of bring it back a little bit into regular reality and in a way that where it could be visually done without being crazy expensive.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:10

Especially with a property like this, which is so odd, which is something I'm trying to communicate, is how strange this property is.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

And it's so strange that it works. The um so he kind of John Carpenters it. He brings it down to like escape from New York level kind of tech.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:26

And it works. Like he does a great job. And I think like the he keeps the soul of the thing in mind the whole time. Like he doesn't go for the sentimental, which is very important in making Dredd work. Yeah. You like right? Like you have to have that that weird, like, tightrope of like interest and like uh fascination with a character, but not too empathetic with a character. Maybe not too identify with the character. Yeah. Like you need him to be a little far away from you. Yeah. Like people should not identify with Dredd.

unknown 1:07:58

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

Maybe we should identify with Judge Anderson, and that's true in the comic too. Okay. And there's other characters we should more likely identify. Dredd is meant to be an unknowable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

That's where it's complicated with the American lens on this is do we connect with Dredd or Anderson in this film? And do we connect with what they represent in this world? Well, and it gets complicated for us, for us Yanks.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

I mean, it's with Dredd himself. He is this constant, and we do get glimpses of a sense of humor. I mean, he has the one-liners. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:37

You can feel it. Like it's this very like there are these subtle changes. And these subtle changes with this man with the mask. Yeah. Just the little subtle changes of tone.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:46

And he'll make a joke, he'll toss her things back. Yeah. It's like, oh, you forgot your helmet already. And she's like, it interferes with my psychic abilities. He says, I think a bullet would would interfere with them more. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:57

This is this is Alex Garlinetta's most fun. Oh, this is this is him being silly and fun and having a good time. That's funny, but that's actually a really funny statement, but it's yeah, we're watching people get skinned alive and uh ripped to shreds with Gatling guns, but I do think this is Alex Scarlinette's silliest.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:15

Right, yeah, and in a very 2000 AD way.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:17

Yeah, because Dredd will dip in and out of that self-awareness. And he does hint at that unknowable quality of him because they have that line of when the chief is asking Anderson uh, you know, who how many people are observing you, and it's to show Dredd that she's a psychic. And she asks Anderson to tell her about the other judge who's there. Yeah. And she says, senses a lot of anger and a lot of control. And she says, but there's something behind the control. Something almost, and then Chief cuts her off. So it's like, there's an oh no. There's more there, yeah. But what is that? And Garland is like, nah. I'm not gonna give you that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:57

Like she because like an American thing, they she would have said, but there's a gentle heart within exactly. There's a there's a caring man deep within. Yeah, yeah. And because that would have been said in an American movie, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

And he would have saved Donald Gleason. Yes, like he would have had a moment, no one's looking, no one knows, and he's like, get the fuck out of here. Like, you gotta get out of here. He would have done that if we made this movie. Right, exactly. So we we gotta talk about Alex Harlan the writer, Alex Garland the maybe director. Yeah, because I have a thing, it's one of my favorite things in this whole entire movie. I don't know who to give credit to. I wish I could say Alex because it ties in with other things he's done in his movies. The motorcycle is so underdesigned. Yes, it's almost ugly. Yeah, in my favorite way. We just watched Tron Aries. Oh, yeah, a while back. Over design everything. Everything has lines and lights and things have to move. Uh Marvel and Michael Bay fucked design for movies so much because they want too much of everything. Yeah, that bike is ugly. It is. No, 100%. It's one of my favorite things in the movie because I look at that, I'm like, one, it looks real. It looks like it could be real. Yeah. And two, it looks like it was drawn. Like your lines are intentional and it's blocky and it's big. It's also brutalist, like the architecture and stuff. Yeah. And I'm like, who gets credit for that? The director.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

I think Jock did. Oh, interesting. Jock did like uh design on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:39

Which he's also drawn a couple arcs or a couple issues of Dredd itself, right? Yeah, oh for sure. No, he's done.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:45

He's done a lot of like there's a lot of like great dread uh artwork by Jock. Okay, yeah. So Eddie's still very much a fan of the character, you can tell.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:52

Yeah, no, that makes sense. But yeah, and it's I had read on the trivia, I haven't seen the 95 movie, but I guess the original look of the bike, just kind of like you mentioned with Dredd's costume, the 95 movie is a little more accurate in terms of the costume and his bike. It's like the lawmaker, lawbringer or something. I can't remember what it's called. But but yeah, they wanted to build it for this dread film to be functional, and they couldn't actually do a direct adaptation of the book because it wouldn't make sense, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:22

Well, I mean, yeah, and like just like the outfit, it's not a direct adaptation.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:25

Yeah, yeah. Because he had crazy he has crazy shoulder. Yeah, like crazy shoulder pads. Like they're like Johnson's shirt right now. Yeah, like see, like look at this. Like that is not functional.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

No, it wouldn't be fun. You know what I mean? Like, that's not functional.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

It it looks like how ridiculous Ghost Ghostface Killer's uh Falcon wristband thing was in the 90s. That's what his shoulder pad looks like. It's like four sizes bigger than what it should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:49

Yeah, and Garland talks about that too of like we had to remove we had to make the suit functional because the one that he wears in the comic books, if he got stabbed or if he got shot, he'd be fucked.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:57

I mean, it's and it's it's ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, is like, and that's the part that like like also Americans have their head around that. Like, this is satire. Yeah. Like this uniform is satire.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

Yeah, because he's dressed up like a fucking, like uh I mean, his shoulder.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:11

Like this shoulder, this shoulder pad looks like it weighs 30 pounds. Yeah, exactly. I think it and it shows it's steel, like you know what I mean, like it's gleaming, like it's like it's brass or something. Yeah, gotcha. Like, like, like he would, you know what I mean? Like, I can't even imagine how you would walk with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Like, which uh the the movie costume I think leans more into the Roman, which is fashionable type of shoulder pads, yes, yeah. But it's more tactile.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:40

It's just yeah, it is actually really well designed.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

The the helmet is also underdesigned in a great way. Yes, right. And then when the other judges come, it's just a little more black, a little less red.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:52

Like you can tell it's like depending on the judge, each judge has their own take on the standard helmet. I love really like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

The one main uh villain judge, yeah, it's it's almost black in the front instead of the the red over the eyes. Whereas it's like, that's it. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:09

It's it didn't need more than just that. And I'm wondering who that actor was. I was gonna look him up, but I forgot to. But I'm like, did he get hired because he has such like a chin? You know what I mean? It had to be, yeah. Because I I wonder who he is.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

The chin is hilarious. Like the one of the the joys of Dread the Comic is how each artist takes the chin. Like uh Steve Dylan, who would like draw a preacher, yeah, who's really one of the great Dread artists, and actually his best artwork is actually from the 2008 era. Okay. He draws him like a grouper fish. Uh-huh. Like, you know what I mean? Like it is like just this incredible arc of frown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and everyone like gives him maybe more chin, less chin, but just like but yeah, the amount of like people just drawing his his face as mean as humanly possible, yeah, but just the chin to express. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:58

Because he never takes his helmet off in the cover. Ever, ever. And he never does in in Dred uh this film. Which yeah, I do want to shout out just how fucking great Carl Urban is as Dredd in the film. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:10

He is fantastic, and I I love him to death for this portrayal. He never was, he even said, I will not play this unless the helmet stays on for the whole picture. Yeah. Like, which I'm like, how many actors? Yeah, which is an inherently narcissistic game, yeah. Like would be like, no one's gonna see my face, and that's how it has to be. Yeah. His love of the property also, in the interviews I read leading up to it, because I was pretty psyched up, right? Yeah. When I knew that Alex Garland was writing this. Yeah. Like listening to the Carl Urban talk about how much he loved the character and how much he wanted to do America, which is this very specific tragedy in the in in Dread. The Judge Dread America is a great comic. Okay. But it's about basically a man who's in love with a woman who's trying to get democracy going and watching Judge Dredd hunt her down. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, yeah, and Carl Urban said, I hope this does really well because we'll do America next. Whoa. And I was like, Are you j that is the most down, and it's like the ending is so hilariously depressing. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like at that end, it is more depressing than you think it is, and it is more sexually deviant than you think it is. Interesting. Like I can't wait to read. I'm yeah. You know what I mean? Like, and like, and the fact that Carl Urban thought that was the next best choice after this adventure film. I was like, I'm fucking in, bro.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

That's sick. Which this came out in 2012. So if they made that in 2014, yeah, I guess so. Maybe. Yeah, which they you can't 2016 in post-2020, you can't you can't. Yeah, they were we're done now. So yeah, because they're not allowed to do this anymore. No, no, it's not like I said, the You couldn't have dreaded.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:55

To quote Morrissey, that joke isn't funny anymore. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:58

Like it's it's it's two on the nose now, it would be seen as two on the nose. Yeah, because it 2012, that's yeah, yeah, exactly. But they were going to do a sequel show. So the movie didn't make enough money to green light a sequel film, but they were gonna do a Mega City one show.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:16

Which would have been great. With there's tons of material to work with.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:19

With Carl Urban as dread. Yeah. He was gonna come back. I don't know how much he was gonna be featured, but then the pandemic happened and it killed it. And not to put a sour note, I this is why I'd want to throw this in here so we can talk still talk about good things about this property. But apparently last year it was optioned again for a reboot with Taika Watiti fucking directing and Drew Pierce writing the screenplay.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:45

Who's Drew? Drew sounds familiar.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:47

He's I I mean he like worked on Iron Man 3 and a couple other people. Oh, that's right, that's right. He's on for higher guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

Yeah, kill that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

Don't let that happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:55

I was I swear to god, I thought you were about to say the guys who did crank, and I was like, okay, maybe. I mean, actually, I might say yes to that. Actually, I might say yes to that. Yeah, what else does it do?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:04

Dread and crank, crank could easily have happened in Dredd's universe.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:08

I was just about to say his movie Gamer feels like it's in this universe.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:12

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:13

Those feel of that.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:15

They could 100%. Like you could throw those those storylines in the Mega City, and Dreg could show up at the end. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:24

Yeah, so that's not good in the future. But uh but I hope it's like Tyka's other shit that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:29

I was gonna say, yeah, Tyka's been uh attached to like five different things.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:33

Uh he was actually gonna do an adaptation of the NCal by Yodorowski and uh and Moebius for a second. I'm so glad that didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

I th he either has the best agent or he interviews the absolute best because they put his name to everything.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:49

He's a charming devil.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:50

He's doing Kazu Ishiguru too. He's doing talked about him doing Akira. He's doing um uh not Clara. That's GDT, right? No, Clara and the Sun, yeah, right? Isn't that it? The Kazu. I thought that was Del Toro. No, he's Del Toro is doing the buried giant. Okay, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:05

But it's I don't think he's gonna I don't think it's gonna work anymore because he has enough money and I think he's fine. But his name's to everything. His name's to everything. Oh, for sure, for sure. He's he I really just like at a certain point JJ's name was attached to everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you you made your hits, and so they're like, give him everything. That's Tyka, but everything fell through. So I'm just hoping he stays away from this stuff. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:34

Yeah, I don't like I mean like the fact is is like there is a special joy, I feel like, for a fan and for like uh like a watcher of like when you love like a a media or no like if you love a a a story from uh a certain medium medium, yeah, thank you. A certain medium, and then you find out that the director coming to adapt it is the right fit.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:58

Like when I saw Garland was coming for dread, I was like, yay. Yeah, right? Like, yay, yeah, and uh recently um that helped with with uh Chanwook Park did Donald Westlake The Axe when he did No Other Choice. Okay, okay. Like when I heard he was doing Westlake's The Axe, I was like, oh yes, yeah, yeah. Because if they're in Sympatica, like you can feel that they're gonna work. For sure. And I feel like you I you know I don't want to jinx with Elden Ring, yeah. But from what you have described, yeah, like I feel like this is someone who like when he takes something on thinks about it and has to be really attuned to it before he picks it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:35

Oh yeah, yeah. And that's how uh Nick feels about uh Craig Mason and The Last of Us is the same thing, marriage in uh harmony.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:44

No, I was gonna I was gonna oh wait, goddamn it, now you threw me up. What was I gonna say?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:48

I was gonna fucking Dave was talking about something. It's your favorite game. Uh it doesn't matter. Fuck it. You just killed it. You just killed it on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:55

Actually, and for a second there, actually, what I before um I love the the um detective novelist Ross McDonald. Okay, and like I the Cohen brothers were gonna adapt one of his books. And before that they split up. Uh but like for a second I was like, oh yes, the right people have shown up finally for this for this material.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:13

Coming back with adaptations. I think Annihilation's gonna be interesting because as much as I really enjoy the third act of Annihilation, I don't like Annihilation because I don't think that it's well adapted.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:25

Uh because I enjoyed the book so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:27

Do you agree, John? I haven't seen it. Oh, okay. But I've heard that from a lot of people. Interesting. Yeah, you and I think that was why I avoided it. It's kind of like, you know, you like like a band and you hear like an album's bad and you just avoid it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:38

Yes, yeah. And it's you know, it's not his fault. I think, I mean, we'll talk about it n uh on the in two episodes from now, but it's one of those things where as compared to Dread, where he grew up immersed within it and he's adapting it, he understands the property very well with Annihilation. It's his second novel adaptation because he adapted uh Never Let Me Go. And I I gotta read up more about it, but I remember at the time his first like for hire thing. No, it's it's where he only read the book once. Oh then he was like, I'm just gonna go off of since I'm directing it, yeah, yeah. I clicked with these certain ideas from the novel, right? And so I went with those. So I didn't reread.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:18

So this it's so I'm like, I don't know. We have a big conversation to have about adaptations and how they stand alone when you break the medium. Right, right, right. We're gonna have to talk about that because I mean we've already said that's what uh PTA's done, I think, twice now. Oh, if not three times now. Yeah, yeah. So like sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's a hindrance, sometimes it's not. Right. We gotta have a real uh conversation about that. But with this, we we do have to mention X Machina's the first time Alex Scarlin is the credited writer director. That's he locks in autore Alex Scarlin's here, ex machina. This film, he was set to only write. There is a credited one director, Peter Travis.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:06

It has come out, it was always rumor, and I think it was a Vanity Fair interview. Alex has officially stated he's like, Yes, I ghost directed. There were issues on set, we were just trying to make the budget and the schedule and the time, and I think certain people were having other battles and they were in over their head. And uh, you know, I I helped out how I could. He's trying to be as democratic, diplomatic as he could, but he did ghost direct this movie.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:36

Yeah, so there's there was rumors behind the scene that all this stuff was going on, and then actually so much so that they both released released a joint statement. So before the movie came out. So this is the statement. Travis and and Garland released a joint statement that read During all stages of filmmaking, Dread has been a collaboration between a number of dedicated creative parties. From the outset, we decided on an unorthodox collaboration to make the film. This situation has been misinterpreted. To set the record straight, Pete was not fired and remains a central part of the collaboration, and Alex is not seeking a co-director credit. We are all extremely proud of the film we have made and respectfully suggest that it is judged LOL, I put in the lol, un villain on viewing when it's released next year.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:23

Editorial license, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:25

So yeah, they l there was all this rumor and they didn't want to tank the movie. That I mean that didn't really help anyway, but yeah, so it just sounds like he and that's why it's and he's a producer too.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:35

I was gonna say that's why it's ghost direct, not co. He has no credit because he he specifically fought to say, I don't want it. Keep it one director, keep it his name. Everything I did directing wise, we don't have to uh I don't need to get paid for it, I don't need it on my resume. I'm not fighting for control of any of that, and he just kind of walked away. It's happened many times in films. I think one of the other big ones is um what's his name? Kurt Russell, I think, essentially made Tombstone. I don't know if he's credited as the director, but the way that goes is a very similar thing, and he is now more forthcoming of like, yeah, I mean I tried my best.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

I think one of the most famous ones is probably Steven Spielberg on Poltergeist. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:24

Where there's still a fight over who did it. Yeah, like him or Toby.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:29

Yeah. They s I still I don't know the answer. Like I hear both sides every time. Yeah, same with like Rogue One with Tony Gilroy taking over for Yeah, he came in and did reshoots, but then everyone's like, Yeah, but how much did he really do? And now with all the Andor stuff, he's like, Oh yeah, I basically reshot the whole movie. Yeah. But oh, interesting. But this this is I think it's right up Alex's alley. Directing wise, it's nothing like Ex Machina. We when we watch that movie, I think the big conversation we'll have is patience, confidence, restraint, and this movie's bombastic. It's kind of like weirdly restrained. At times it is. I think uh the plot isn't bigger than it needs to be. I don't think the characters are bigger than it needs to be. Yeah, in and out of the way. Great Sean Carpenter that's simple prep exactly, yeah. Simple premise. Um, fuck all the whole who copied who for the raid and all of that. I just interested in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:27

That one's a that one's an interesting one, but those came out at the same time. Yeah. They feel very different to me.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:32

That's why I don't care about it. Is like I get the premise of like you're locked in, you're going up.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:38

But the going up thing is more of the actual structure of the raid. It doesn't feel like that for this movie where every floor is another, like he can go up and down, he just can't leave the building.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:51

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:52

That's so different than the raid. And I think if you watch those two movies, I other than that sentence, there's nothing else they have in common. Yeah, like people are getting knifes in the head in the raid, and this is getting blown up as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:06

They're very different movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:07

Yeah. But the the lo-fi tech, the like shitty just clips to her arm detonator, yeah, the the motorcycle, the drugs just initially.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:18

And can I just say the best use of 3D of all time?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:23

Yeah, we have there, it's yeah, we haven't mentioned that. This is so cool. This was released as Dread 3D. Yeah. And I saw it in 3D. Yeah, yeah. Me too. It was fucking great. Yeah, top three 3D movies, I think, that I've ever seen for sure. It's so fucking good.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

This jackass 3D and Hugo Arn Scorsese's uh fan classic.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:43

I I like Prometheus in 3D a lot, and Avatar's getting 3D, but Prometheus was great. But yes, the fucking bullets, yeah, the the slow mouth in 3D is insane.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:53

And the the only thing in 3D is the slow-mo. Yes, yeah, which is wild that choice. Yeah, it's such a cool choice.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

Which is just the drugs and the violence. Like high literature water. Like just throwing it around. It's crystal y and and then yeah, people getting their uh throats blown off.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:12

Yeah, all the the crazy which it held holds up pretty well, all the the CGI blood and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, it's shot with those phantom cameras. And which yeah, I guess in Garland too, if you read behind the scenes stuff, he's the one who helped develop all the slow-mo stuff. And really, he's the one who worked with PvP and all this kind of stuff. That's interesting. To try to highlight all the you know the the psychedelic colors and the shimmers. I forgot, yeah. In terms of speaking about it being a patient film, that's the the moments that struck me as how patient it was because I'm like, oh, you're fucking in these slow-mo moments. Yeah with the druggies, yeah. For a long time. Like her playing in the bath. Like, yeah, it's just like two minutes. Yep. And we're like, oh, just sitting there.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

Which is funny. Uh his first kind of sort of touch to directing, that's some Danny Boyle shit. And then you get to never let me go, and he works with Mark Romanick. Ex Machina is Mark Romanick. Yes. Like this is going, yeah, this is some Danny Boyle. Let's play with new tech. Yeah. Let's play with colors and saturation and some stuff like get a little surreal with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:15

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, there's no way. Yeah, because we've been talking about that on uh at least in these first ones of directors adapting his work and how their directing style influences his directing style. And yeah, mostly with with so far, it's mostly just been Mark Romanek with Never Let Me Go. It's it feels like that's styles. They're sympathy. And when you watch Danny Boyle's adaptations of his work, it's just Danny Boyle's Danny Boyle, and he's gonna be Danny Boyle. But yeah, I definitely see that more in dread than the Mark Romanick of it all.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:47

Nick, how much do you like this movie?

SPEAKER_04 1:29:49

I really like this movie. I think it's really fun. I think it's great. I own it. I it's one of those I own most of his stuff, and I haven't seen it in a couple years. You know, maybe when I bought the Blu-ray, I watched it. But yeah, it's fucking lean. I just it is I I'm an em I'm a fucking red-blooded American male. I want to see some fascist bullshit of just fucking wiping people out. It's horrible. But you get a kick out of it. Yeah. As much as you know that it's morally wrong, and especially in our do you agree that it's morally wrong?

SPEAKER_00 1:30:21

I do.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:22

You don't have the answer on mic, but two two two things can be true at the same time. I agree that it's morally wrong and it is highly entertaining in a story context. Right. Uh, so yeah, I fucking I'd love this. And for real.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:35

High X bullets blowing guys to bits is really fucking cool. It's a good time. It is really cool. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:42

Fucking dread blowing the killing the other shotgun corrupt judge, like just with the high explosive in his head, and then the other judge being like, fuck. It's so yeah, there's so many good things. And and I gotta fucking say, alright, with the the it's not the emotional climax of the movie. That's I think that's Anderson. That's Anderson letting Donald Gleason go. But just dread fucking shooting mama in the liver and then going and putting the slummo on her.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:12

And then he throws her out the fucking window. I was like, I literally wrote my notes. I'm like, I think this is the coolest hero killing the villain scene I've ever seen. Like, who fucking does that? He he doesn't have to do that, he could just execute her. But you know, we have this other layer of supposed explosives that are planted. We don't know if she's faking that or not. But still, how's it for him to gamble it?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

That's the thing. He's like, maybe I'll die with you, maybe I won't. Yeah. We're gonna find out together.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:40

But to give her the drugs, it's the most metal shit.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:50

I'm like, goddamn, Dredd, you're fucking cool, bro. I love that. Yeah, so I really enjoy this one. I think it's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:57

Long answer, but I shout out fucking uh Wood Harris. I wish that man acted so much. Which more is the black guy that they catch.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:06

Yeah, what else is he in?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:07

One battle after another, remember the title. Yeah, just one battle after another. Wood Harris every time he shows up, I'm like, fuck, I wish you were just around more. He uh to me, it's not even that he's like an exceptional actor, he just has charisma. I want to watch him do more stuff.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:26

Yeah, he's fun for sure. Yeah, how do you like it, William?

SPEAKER_00 1:32:29

I like it. I I I thought it was like uh come and go when I first saw it in the theater. I was like, that's fun. I probably won't think about it after by the time I get home, and I didn't stop thinking about it. And every time I watch it, I'm like, I I don't know if I can put my finger all the way on what it is, but like, yeah, it sticks with me. Not just how fun it is, I think I really like the design in the world building, the gun, keep the helmet on, do you got the mutants?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:59

You got the fucking mall kiosk scroller ball mask. Yeah, yeah. I was like, fuck yes, I love that. Yeah, it's very leans into that 80s aesthetic as if that was the future, which was big in the 80s, you know, with you know, it's Robocop. Tracking voltage stuff. Oh, for sure. Yeah, but yeah, so fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:18

Yeah, I I re I really do enjoy this movie. For Alex Garland, he's saying a lot, and it's easy to go, he's not. He just made uh a comic book movie. It feels like if you look at everything, the next movie he does is ex fucking Machina. So it feels like this is light work, yeah, but I still go back to like for him to talk to America about fascism is very interesting, and I think it's another one he was ahead of his time with American fascism, and then in a couple years he's gonna be ahead of his time with uh tech AI search engines and data. Like he's he's locked in with something and he wants to talk about it before it's in the zeitgeist, which makes me very scared for the future considering civil war because he's been so fucking spot on with a lot of stuff, yeah, yeah. And devs, you gotta remember devs. Yeah, I again, yeah. I mean, uh it's uh this shows you someone that is well read and educated and intelligent. They they see these patterns. It's the I always I these two movies, this and X Magma, make me think of the end of the big short, the Christian Bell character that saw all of this before everything. Yeah, yeah. It literally ends with him them going, No, again, I need to tell you, he saw this before it happened. All his money now is in water futures. Just to let you know. That's where his brain's at now. Is he goes, yeah, there's gonna be water wars in like a couple decades, and that's what he's investing in. And then the movie just fucking ends going, yeah, the guy that predicted this, he's on to water now. Yeah, yeah. And then it's uh fuck, dude. And now what's one of the biggest things they're talking about with AI? Water is like he uses water enormous. Like it's like, God damn it. Every once in a while, there's an autistic guy that taps into one little thing and no one listens.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:12

That's why you need to get vaccined. You need to get your children vaccinated. They need more autistic guys, they need that Tylenol for the predictive power. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:19

We all yeah, for anyone that walked away from Tylenol, it's like, well, you you want your what do you want your kid? Like, yeah, let him be good. Do you want your kid to be a doctor or not? Do you want to hyperfixate or not? Like, what's wrong with you being scared of this?

SPEAKER_04 1:35:33

So, what's your feelings as the resident Albuquerque dread expert on this film? How much did you enjoy it coming out of the theater? How do you feel like it? I love that now.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:43

I loved it then, I love it now. The um actually, if anything, like I felt like when I first saw it, I was just glad it didn't fuck it up.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:50

And I was just like, and it was just a great action movie. And it was also, like I said, like I love John Carpenter too. So like like having like kind of a modern John Carpenter movie was great for me. And then I actually took my friend Ramon to go see it like the same week. And then he took his friend to go see it. So it may have tanked, but it wasn't for my lack of trying. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:36:08

Like, yeah, in our friend group, we were all stoked. Yeah, everybody, like everyone was super stoked for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

Right, right. It's and I think anyone who saw it on, like, you know, whatever streaming service ended up getting attached to it to some degree. Yeah. So in that case, quality will out. I think also like it's kind of one of those things because you're talking about an easier adaptation, but to me, it was a harder adaptation because I have watched so many people fail like at doing dread right.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:32

Well, and you're yeah, even com great comic book writers.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:35

Right, like again and again and again. Yeah, like and Andy Helfer too, I think, who was like a fairly good American writer, tried to take him on in the 80s. Okay. Wrote a horrible dread. Okay. Like, you know what I mean? Like, again and again. And so, like, to me, it was like, you gotta have some balls to take this character on. And I the fact that Alec Arlen did it so well to me was like, well, I guess he's got the goods.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:55

More so almost than you know, some of his other aptations, where I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's good. It's not as hard as dread, but it's good, you know what I mean? For sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:04

And yeah, that's a good question. Uh, do you think it is? Does it come down to that with these comic book writers who have are are good in their own right, but they try to adapt dread? Is it the fact that they don't treat dread as the constant?

SPEAKER_03 1:37:19

I think so. Okay. I think they want to do normal writing exercises. Yeah. They want to do the normal thing, yeah, and you have to kind of be restrained in the handling of this character. Yeah. Or it somehow spins the rest of the storyline off.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:34

Like you have to hit the note right, even if it's just the one note.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:38

Yeah, it's either he's the protagonist or he's an antagonist, and you have to design the story around the people who are around him, who he's interacting with. Right. But he's gotta be the creator.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:48

For some reason, that's something Wagner does very easy, and everybody else struggles at. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:52

And it seems like, yeah, Garland locked in on that very much.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:55

I get I get why it's hard to dip into another world. I think uh the last couple years with our pop culture movies, everyone. I for I don't I need to do my research. I forgot who's the first to like really do it, but everyone did the the old hero, he's sad, he's depressed, he's uh they just did it with uh Indiana Jones. It's like we're we're gonna take something, but we're gonna make them old and sad now. Logan, old and sad. It's uh Rocky, old and sad. Like that's uh I get the mindset of coming into dread. Are you telling uh a story with these, or do you already have your story and you want to plug it in there? And that's why I asked the Lone Wolf and Cub is anytime I see uh a big kind of brooding, emotionless hero or anti-hero, I'm like someone had to go put him with a kid, let him protect a woman. Like uh someone always looks at this and goes, Well, do the let's invert it, let's do this, let's take away his gun, let's get him trapped and he has no tech and get like you always I can see how people do that and they lose the no, what is the thing you do with dread as opposed to doing something and go, here's my Batman script, I'll just put it in Mega City. I'll do dread. It's my story I already had for someone else. I'll do this. I'll do a Punisher or a Superman, but with him. And it's like I bet you you can smell it and you can tell they're not of this world.

SPEAKER_07 1:39:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:26

I think that's uh when it comes to adaptations and jumping into an established world, I bet you that's where a lot of people go wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:33

Although, like in the case of oh god, what's this game? What's the name of uh the lone wolf? Ogami? I'm trying to remember what his real name what his name is.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:40

I think that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:41

Like, um, in the case of if it is Ogami, like like the opening of like Lone Wolf and Cub, right, is like there's this like large conspiracy. He takes his infant child and is like, choose between the toy and the sword. If you choose the toy, I will kill you and you will be with your mother in eternity. If you choose the sword, you will come with me to hell. Right? Yeah, like that's the opening of Lone Wolf and Cub. 100% in dread. 100%. I can see dread making that moment happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:09

That's awesome. I love that. That's beautiful. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:12

With that in mind, thinking of these other writers and adapting it, do these guys who kind of fail not only miss the constant of dread, but do they miss the political satire and do they miss the political point of like making fun of Americans or or playing with the fascism? Is it something like that?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:30

The thing is, like sometimes like they do too much of one or too much of the other. Okay, I see. Like because sometimes they try to go very zany, because sometimes dread is very zany. Yeah. Like, but it's too zany, and it doesn't quite hit the mark.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:43

Or they try to make dread too heroic and too good.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:48

Right? And it doesn't quite hit the mark. Or they try to make him too villainous.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:52

And it doesn't quite hit the mark. Yeah. It is a h it is a it's a balance. It's a hard target to hit. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:57

That's uh that's why I always think and I don't I don't read comics, so I'm not I'm thinking as a as a character in in the pop culture zeitgeist, like, would Batman and Bruce Wayne be left leaning? And do we have an example of a billionaire that's also a vigilante against crime that wouldn't lean fascistic?

SPEAKER_03 1:41:20

You know what's really interesting, man, is like so speaking of comics, right? The like Grant Morrison did this really interesting thing called was it Batman Incorporated? Yes. And his whole premise of it was the idea of Batman creating a franchise of Batmans throughout the world, and then it would be a superhero as a corporation.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:39

Which was so outlandish. Like, you know what I mean? Like, because I don't think that's possible. Like inherently in capitalism, there is that degree of evil to it. Yeah, yeah. But he was basically positing like a good corporation. Like, and I don't know, like, if like it's if how possible it is for someone who is so high up in the stratosphere of wealth to truly identify and do good. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:04

Like, yeah, and I think that ties into what we talk about in the future with X Machina of like the altruistic and not even altruistic, sorry, the the ego maniacal creator Frankenstein version of tech bros. That's that's fictional. They're that only exists in fiction. Elon Musk is not creating stuff to be the first guy to create it, he's just a fucking weirdo. Oh in real life, they're just obsessed with money.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:29

At a certain point, I think he was though. I think at a certain point he wanted to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:33

Before he was in front of a camera, I think he was that guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:37

Well, that's what I mean is as soon as you get that hint of fame, that hint of power, then it becomes about that. And he's a big uh consumer of media and these kind of things too. So like I think in his own mind he thought that he was gonna be that guy, but that doesn't exist. Humans are too easily corruptible. So yeah, I I think just like those tech bros who want to be the first person to go to Mars or be the first person to invent robots, whatever the fuck, be the first person to invent AI, like an ex machina or a Batman, like those uh who's a billionaire who's altruistic, it's like it's not that's it's just a story.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:10

Because yeah, I I think the the the the the tech world's not our modern equivalent to like early industrialists, they're not Rockefellers and all of that. It's not that those guys were doing a different thing, of course. They amassed all the wealth. This is in the lens of media. These guys are getting lip filler and jaws like they are doing all of that because there is a level of if I make something everybody likes, I'm gonna get interviewed. I mean, Elon was video game cheating, he was lying about video games, like he's doing 10-year-old crimes because he wants to be cool. I think and I just uh these guys aren't artists, yeah. Where they're making a thing to create a thing, they're not let me put this in the world of rap. They're the female rappers that had one hit, one hit song, song of the summer, and now they're just a celebrity. Now they're just hanging out, and they were here just to get to the party. There's a lot of tech guys like that now. Okay, it's like I just want to get enough money to get invited. I'm asking to go to the island. Yeah, I'm asking. Like, that's all this is is I want to have a picture next to these big names, good or bad. Yeah, I would love to meet a Saudi Prince. Yeah, you know how cool it'd be to put my hands on that weird glowing orb thing that they do. I don't know what it is, I don't know what I'm summoning, but I want that picture that's fucking cool. And I think there's a lot of people that's the the the means to the end for that. Yeah, we don't have someone that's just cre like the guy that we're thinking of is uh I forgot his name. He's the guy that like invented and owns Oracle, like an HR system. He's like a multi-billionaire, no one knows what he looks like. Yeah, he's not hanging out at the USC events, he's not shaking hands with Joe Rogan and Tony Hinchcliffe. Like, he's just an old man. He's not marrying Grimes. Exactly. He he just has billions of dollars, he doesn't know what a DJ is, he's never heard EDM music.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:15

Yeah, Larry Ellison. Yeah, he's putting up the money to buy Warner Brothers.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:18

That's one of those guys that we're thinking are like the old industrialists. These tech guys are uh I said it uh later when we talk ex marketing. Tech guys now uh they're hedge fund guys, they're they're finance. Yeah, it's money, it's which that also was a job of like I get to day drink and wear a suit around a busy city and I look cool.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:38

That was also part of the sex of the culture of that. Yeah. That's why I think some of that is, but there was a thing with Elon at a certain point. He was a cool guy.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:49

Well, because of he was exciting, it's because of what he was repping, and because he comes from the world of of science fiction and all this stuff where those characters exist, right? You know, that altruistic again, fucking Peter Whelan from Wayland New Tani and the Alien Universe.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:05

It's I am the most powerful well-known hero of this universe, good guy. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:11

But that's the whole thing. These people struggle with irony, and Americans, it's kind of not our strong suit. Uh, but that's what it is. You have these people who have changed the world, and so he comes from that world. And so I think he thought that that was a real thing, but then life is life, and humans are humans, and then you get famous and you get rich, and you're like, oh, I'm just gonna do that instead. Who gives a shit about that stuff? Right, right, right. Now I'm the richest person on the planet, and I'm the biggest fucking loser on the planet.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:36

I mean, that's and that's where I think uh I uh the how much of the course of history has changed just because Dave Chappelle took Elon on stage and got booed. Like, I I mean, I don't want to say it's a one-to-one to January 6th, but we're pretty fucking close to saying this is all Dave Chappelle's fault. That he brought, he's like, eh, my good friend, Elon Musk, he's a good guy. Comes out, everyone boos him. He's like, now, god damn it, wait a minute, everybody be cool. Like he tried so hard to be like, this is a nice guy. Now Elon's playing with flamethrowers, video game lying, hang out pretending to smoke weed on Joe Rogan. Like, yeah, he took a kitchen sink to the Twitter offices, dark, dark. All this happens because they they booed him, because he was a fucking nerd.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:25

That's what happens. You boo rich people.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:26

They we're all human, we're all fragile, we're all right, and that and they all react accordingly. Exactly. Yeah, it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:34

I don't I d uh I don't know how I'd react if Masses Square or Radio City musical. Yeah, booed you. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:41

I would yeah, you'd be like dread, you'd kill a bunch of people. Oh probably. Yeah, I mean I'd put a helmet on and say I am the law. Do we have any random stuff from our notes that we didn't touch upon before we land this thing? Close this out.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:54

How do we feel about the villain Lena from Game of Thrones lady?

SPEAKER_03 1:47:57

I thought she was great. She's cool, she's good. Yeah, just like super scuzzy.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:02

Yeah, very gross, very I forgot that Domino Gleason was in this until he showed up again. I'm like, that's three in a row for Alex Garland. He's in Never Let Me Go. He's in dread, and then boom, he's the ex-Mantina. Yeah, he's an X-Man.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:15

And he's also kind of a pathetic schlub.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:17

Uh yeah, he's does really well in this. We create we criticize him a little bit in the future for X.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:22

Boy's gross and yellow.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:24

It's yucky.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:25

He's got those camera eye balls things. That she like, which is funny because like in this movie, the I like the fact that like you see her digging a guy's eyes out. Yeah. And then later you're like, that's him. This is the guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:38

Set up payoff. Set up payoff with super nice. Immediately, whenever Dredd is getting dressed in the beginning, and he has his pistol and it says ID DNA check or whatever, and then later on, with the guy trying to use Anderson's, it blows his hands off, setup pay. He does a bunch of good stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:55

Speaking of Anderson, I can't uh walk away from this podcast. Quick shout out. I'm in love with Olivia Thurlby. Reasonable beautiful, yes. Love it. She did great in this. I wish she worked more.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:06

I wish you both the best.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:08

I'm not allowed to watch Why The Last Man, which she's in because it's not streaming anywhere. They didn't put it in. They took it off a Hulu. You can't find it anywhere. It's great. And I imagine that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 1:49:19

It was actually a great comic adaptation. Speaking of other great comic adaptations, yeah, they've fucked that up.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:23

I will say on the off note, just uh what do you call it? In case people think that like British comics are only pro-fascism, there is another comic that was going at the same time of dread that was called Nemesis the Warlock. Okay. Which was about humans being uh evil creatures who are attempting to murder intr uh extraterrestrial aliens. The the villain of the piece, his name is Torquemata, he is a Christian human fascist. And the hero of the story is Nemesis the Warlock, who looks like an enormous demon and is the freedom fighter of the piece. It was by uh Pat Mills and it was by Kevin O'Neill before Kevin O'Neill ever did League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Interesting. And it is incredible. And it is like one of the great anti-fascist comic book pieces of all time. Those pieces are both in 2018. So it's not only I don't want any I want anyone to think that like it's always cop stories. This like cop stories. Like they also did, you know, very left-leaning kind of like science fiction pieces.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:26

Wow, I've never even heard of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:27

I gotta this is a I I do wish this made more movies. I do wish they had$50 million budget before uh 2016. Dread. Yeah, exactly. Because yeah, 2012, get two more out. Right. I would have loved a good solid trilogy, and then we walk away and don't want to talk about it because it's uncomfortable. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:47

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:48

Cause yeah, they remade Deathwish. Like, no, give that money and put it. Yeah, Bruce Willis. I think he like Roth worked on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:55

I think he had a fascia by then, though. Yeah, I think that was pretty late.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:58

But yeah, it it was late, but I'm like, no, give the money to the Alex and make two more.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:03

And Carl Urban and let give us two more. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:07

I would have loved it. Whenever they're heading up, and Anderson's talking, he says he wants to get her assessment of what to do, and she gives it and he kind of frowns a little bit and she says wrong answer, and he says, You're the psychic. Yeah, it still sound funny. I would fucking love that, dude. There's so many good ones.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:25

There's so many good. And also the fact that they gave to the the corrupt judge the line about the cranking of the handle. Yeah, he's like, This this city's a meat grinder. Yeah. The judges turn the handle. Yes. And he didn't give it to any of the stars. He just gave it to this, like, you know. I thought that's a really great thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:42

Yeah, all we do is turn the handle. Yeah, so fucking good. And then the guy with uh with Anderson, yeah, any last words, bitch. She says, Funny. I was gonna ask you the same thing, bitch.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:55

Punk bitch. So dumb.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:57

I was not like him stunning the kids. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's very uh one, it's funny to me, but it also I think that's the closest we lean into. He's not just Robocop a killing machine. Yes, yeah, right. He is like, I mean, uh punk ass kids, get out of my way.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:14

One, he's fucking with them because when they're like, turn around or put your gun out, he's like, why?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fucking you gonna do is the safety on? Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:24

So good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:25

I I do like that uh differential. He's not just a mindless robot. Yeah, he's well. They do it with the humor, they do it with the the line reads and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:37

I like that. And that's why it's unrealistic because there was a there was a child of color pointing a gun at a police officer and the police to go in America.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:47

It's the first to go because he goes, You he's gonna run this in two years. Yeah, yeah. I gotta take him out now.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:53

Yeah, if that was real America, you turn it to be like, nope, and just kill him. Yeah, their hands look like guns. What was I supposed to do? I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. All right, John. On that note, uh, John, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:07

Thanks for having me. I had a great time.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:08

Yeah, thank you. Thank you. We really appreciate it. And yeah, I'm super stoked to read more Judge Dread, especially after watching this movie and and uh you letting us know the cultural context. Uh, we really appreciate it. Then yeah, we'd love to have you back on. I think we were talking about maybe some devs stuff if you want to get back to the book.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:23

I'd love to come back for devs.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:24

And yeah, we'll be back next week where we already spoke to Dave Jordan yesterday, but you'll hear that episode next week with X Machina. So, yeah, please join us then. We'll be back then. I love you guys. Love you guys.